Teacher Shaman:
https://www.facebook.com/holisticobacalar/ –Loumitea in Quebec:
http://www.lamessageredevie.com Soul lecture: https://www.facebook.com/mariechristine.olivier.3 The author mentioned: Mark Harner https://www.shamanism.org/fssinfo/harnerbio.htmlWhere Amy sourced her drum:
https://tribalspiritmusic.com/Music:
//https://torokdickson.bandcamp.com/track/heart-of-fire-feat-annie-lamoureux/Transcript
Annie Lamoureux
[00:00:00] Music: Hey
[00:00:33] Amy: witches, it's Amy from the Missing Witches podcast, coming at you with Witches Found. You just heard the Kirtan group, Durati Mata, recorded right here at the Missing Witches studio. So, of course, we had to grab the opportunity to chat with the group's leader, artisan, healer, medicine woman. Here's my chat with her.
Enjoy.
[00:00:57] Annie: Um, I think medicine woman is the right term. Great. So what does
[00:01:01] Amy: that mean to
[00:01:02] Annie: you? Um, Mmm. Mmm. Ha ha ha ha. Well, actually, medicine woman, um, They're the Shaman from, uh, North America, actually. And even, uh, well, depends where exactly in America, but, uh, Shaman is, uh, from Siberia. And I believe that to be a Shaman is, uh, is someone that heals, that helps healing as well.
His surroundings and his community.
[00:01:40] Amy: Yeah, when you say healing, do you, are you speaking more specifically about physical healing?
[00:01:45] Annie: Spiritual healing. Okay, now talk about that. Thank you, Amy.
[00:01:49] Music: So talk about
[00:01:50] Amy: like how, how does one, oh, there are so many ways to heal a spirit. Tell us about your practice. Because I know you're, you're, you have a multicultural approach.
Yeah,
[00:02:00] Annie: exactly. Transcultural, actually. Transcultural approaches from different, uh, uh. Shamanic practices. Um, my practice that I develop is the voice and the drumming. That's one of my, uh, practices. Tools, actually, that I
[00:02:17] Amy: use. Right. And how do the tools become practices, then?
[00:02:21] Annie: Um, ooh, that's a great question.
How does the tool become practices? Well, it's difficult to explain in words. And whatever is spiritual is, is not tangible, so it's difficult as well to see when we're talking about spirits or, you know, it's something that is very subtle. But please repeat the question.
[00:02:47] Amy: How do you, as a medicine woman, help people to connect their...minds to their bodies.
[00:02:55] Annie: Actually the mind and the body people do connect with. What we want to connect it is with the spirit. Please go on. So it's actually, there's different practices like shamanic, uh, voyages.
Oui. Les voyages shamaniques, par exemple, and in those moments. When you get in, in a trance, you can receive information from the other
[00:03:25] Amy: worlds in the trance state. Yes. Okay. So we see this in voodoo, particularly where the, the loa come and actually possess the holy person. Um, so that's something that happens in shamanic
[00:03:40] Annie: tradition, definitely.
But, uh. We do not possess, it's like, uh, It's just the message? Oui, exactement, we become just a transit. We're like, we're the transiter, actually, from the, the... Yes, the great spirit or whatever you want to call it. Um, and
[00:04:01] Amy: you do this in many ways. Can you talk about like kirtan versus drum circle and explain what those things are for our listeners who don't know?
Yeah.
[00:04:09] Annie: Well, kirtan is actually when we, uh, unite to sing together, uh, and these are prayers. This is
[00:04:17] Amy: a Hindu. Yeah.
[00:04:20] Annie: Concept. Exactly. Hindu concept. But basically, in all cultures, this is what happens. Yep. Singing together. Prayers and singings, whatever it is, to Mother Earth or to God or to, you know, in all cultures, we have our different prayers that we sing.
And this is where we actually also connect with the Great Spirit and connect with the gods and connect with the higher self. This is...
[00:04:46] Amy: So in Kirtan, you use your voice, whereas in drum circle, the drum is, if I'm, excuse me, if I'm not correct, is an extension of the heartbeat. Exactly. Yeah. So these are all sort of different ways that we can use our bodies to communicate with the...
[00:05:02] Annie: Definitely. Yeah. And especially when we get into a trance mode, for example, the rhythm of the drum is going to be faster. So it's going to be, uh,
For us to kind of get into that trance. And you actually go on into the higher world or the lower world. And there's the middle world.
[00:05:26] Amy: That's interesting. Can you speak on
[00:05:27] Annie: that for a bit? Yeah, sure. So, the middle world is actually where we are standing. You and me, we're in the middle world. He is the dog.
All humans, or spirits that haven't also passed, are sitting in the middle world. So there's many things in the middle world. There's going to be the spirit of one tree particularly, or the spirit of the wind, the spirit of... Whatever.
[00:05:50] Amy: But the middle isn't just the physical realm that we can see, other things exist in this middle realm.
[00:05:56] Music: Oh my god, yes!
[00:05:59] Annie: And this is where it can also be dangerous, because you can get caught in the middle world. Spirits can get you in the middle world, so that's why you need to travel very safely with spirits. Guides and allies, but that's another, so, and then, um, my, one of my teacher, one of my, um, yeah, one of my teacher, the way she explains it is that when we travel into the higher world and the lower world, it's like a house and there's two doors at that house.
So there's in the basement, there is one door that you open and for example, that that would be the lower world. And then there's the first floor door, that is actually the same house, but it's a different vibe. So, when you travel higher, actually in the higher world or in the lower world, this is where you can meet the spirit of the whole.
So, for example, the spirit of the wolf, but not only one wolf, it will be the spirit of all the wolves living in the middle world.
[00:07:11] Amy: And so, the higher world we can sort of imagine is this like, uh, you know. Ah, there is, uh,
[00:07:18] Annie: beautiful ways to see it. And it's very different. For everyone. But is it sort
[00:07:23] Amy: of like the western concept of heaven and hell?
No.
[00:07:26] Annie: Okay, so explain the difference. Explain the difference. Totally different. It's actually, it's only, it's your perce it's, it's your, uh, imagination. So it's about a state of being. It's more than a state of being. It's a trans state.
[00:07:40] Amy: But you... Seek to live your life No,
[00:07:44] Music: you don't
[00:07:44] Annie: want is it you visit to get some information and then you bring the healing where you are There you go So for example, if I'm with someone and she wants to I don't know She has something that she wants to heal a relationship.
She wants to have clarity on a relationship or whatever So I will go and travel in the upper or lower world Seek information for her ask allies and get the information and then I will channel and come back and discuss with her. Did you
[00:08:13] Amy: choose to be a healer or do you feel you were chosen?
Neither. You always were.
[00:08:23] Annie: And that's interesting. Um, you know, uh, a shaman is People will call somebody a shaman. A shaman will never say that he's a shaman. So it's the people around him that will say he's the shaman of the community or she's the healer of the community. A passage that came very naturally in the travels that I did especially in Mexico.
This is where it started. I've more traveled It's like in Mexico, a lot of in Latin America, uh, this is where I met a couple of healers. Actually one African man that showed me a way of healing is way of healing was speaking to the art heart. It was communicating to your heart in a language, unknown language, like he would
[00:09:11] Amy: approach your physical body.
It would be physically.
[00:09:14] Annie: Yeah, exactly. In the back of you, you would be sitting and you would start talking to your heart. Oh, wow. That was a very powerful experience. And this man also showed me a lot of different ways of healing. And another woman also in Mexico, uh, and I often go and see her because she's one of my, uh, Mentors.
[00:09:37] Amy: Definitely. Yes. Can you say her name again, just to speak it into the universe? Erez
[00:09:41] Annie: Reyes. Oh, what a beautiful
[00:09:43] Amy: name. And so what's your ethnic background?
[00:09:50] Annie: I am from my dad's side. I am native, mixed blood. But my, uh, arien grammar was, uh, Iroquois, Mohawk, and, um, Always kind of felt very different and when I connected with the drum, this is where actually I really And the drum kind of came to me very naturally.
And this was your first
[00:10:16] Amy: foray into the healing arts. There you go. And banging on the drum. I mean, personally, I'm just going to tell our listeners very quickly, I met Annie when she was hosting a full moon. Circle and I tried her drum once and I think I immediately went home and sourced one from the Indigenous people in my area of Quebec because as soon as you hit a drum you know if you need one immediately or not.
So I mean that was a very, somebody gave you a drum and you just really, that resonated with you. There you go. In an incredible way. Yeah. Yeah. And you've been on this journey for years now, traveling and learning and
[00:10:56] Annie: teaching. Yeah. Six, seven years, I think. Something like that. Mm
[00:11:00] Amy: hmm. And you're also an artisan.
Can you tell us, uh, about, um,
[00:11:04] Annie: Maracatao? Yeah. Well, this also kind of came very naturally. Uh, it was just, I, I had a vision and the vision like was to weave. I wanted to weave dreamcatchers and that was really something that I don't know why it was a calling and when I was in Mexico I met a man who showed me how to weave and
[00:11:26] Amy: properly because I want you to I mean we all have seen people with their Dollar store dream catchers hanging from a very different So like tell our listeners who don't know what's the real story of the dream catcher?
What what's it meant to do and why is it sacred?
[00:11:43] Annie: There's actually different from different cultures there's different ways of using the dream catchers, but it actually It's, um, a tool of, um, empowerment, and it's also, uh, medicine tool, and it's also a manifestation tool, and it's also, uh, protective tool.
So, uh, what I can say on that is whatever intentions are put into a dreamcatcher, this is what it's meant to be for.
[00:12:18] Amy: And this is probably true for anything we make with our hands. There you go. Or think with our minds. Exactly. Um, the episode... that led me to talk to you as a healer is about Maria Sabina.
Maria Sabina, um,
[00:12:33] Annie: is she's, um, a Mexican
[00:12:36] Amy: curandera who was in equal parts credited and blamed with, um, giving the magic mushroom to the white man. So do you ever, um, take things? Do you eat things? Drink the water? What are your notions on, um, I know you do a cacao ceremony. Do you ever use drugs?
[00:12:58] Annie: I never use, uh, other medicine than, uh, than the voice and the drum.
Once I wanted to go to a peyote ceremony. And we were two cars following the curandero. And we were in the back and we had an accident. Not your time. Exactly. So, and right now I'm reading, um, Michael Arner's book. He's the founder of the school in California, uh, shamanic school, transcultural shamanic school.
And he's been traveling and using those medicine, but there's other ways, like by the trance, by the drum, by the vibration, by the voice, we To those type of
[00:13:48] Amy: yeah, I mean my thinking is when I was a kid We would just eat mushrooms and party like they were just a you know, a trip out drug And so when we were working on this episode, I thought I haven't taken mushrooms in You know, 10, 10 years or whatever.
And I was like, I'll do it Maria Sabina's way, you know? Mm-Hmm. . And try this again. You know, be honest about what, be honest about what your problem is. Mm-Hmm. , um, and so on and so forth. And the message that I got from the mushrooms was, you don't need us. That's great. Honestly, you know? Wow. But I can imagine how people who are more calcified, you know, who are more, uh, who don't see the.
that it's all a game or a show or magic. People who don't see magic there that's That's an easy way to put it people who don't see magic might need mushrooms to see magic. It's
[00:14:40] Annie: kind of a little Kick in the, in the spirit.
[00:14:44] Amy: Exactly. So if you need a kick in the spirit, maybe, be careful, do it with a shaman.
Definitely. But if you feel you're already somewhat connected, a drum is probably a better tool, you think? It's
[00:14:54] Annie: so powerful. It's like one of the most ancient tool used by every different cultures. Yes. So it's, there's a lot of power in the drumming.
[00:15:06] Amy: Yes, and that's something that you do, you travel, you live in a bus.
[00:15:10] Annie: I do. I
[00:15:11] Amy: live in a bus. Oh, perfect. Because Annie travels around and takes her, her kirtan. Can you tell us, um, again, like your various personas that you use? So, kirtan is, your group is, uh, Dharatimata. Daratimata, that's kirtan.
[00:15:28] Annie: Yeah, that's the kirtan. And your drum circle is? The drumming circle, I'm actually right now working on a new project called The Voice of the Soul.
Ah,
[00:15:39] Amy: do you hear that everybody? The voice of the soul.
[00:15:42] Annie: Yeah, so that's, that's what's calling me right now. Great. So, kind of developing around the voice of the soul and connecting with that, so the drumming circle will turn into The Voice of the Soul.
[00:15:53] Amy: And it'll all become the kirtan.
[00:15:56] Annie: Well, I, I like to keep the way that I see is, well, in the, in the kirtan, I'm also bringing the drum and chanting some prayers and, you know, but, uh, it's, it's, I kind of, I have difficulty kind of bringing it all together.
So, for me right now, what I see is still like very, like, the, um, lines, no? Not really lines, but, uh. But it, it, for sure it comes all together. It's, it's, but.
[00:16:26] Amy: You're not anywhere near the end of your journey. So I imagine these things will just become more and more synthesized as you carry on. Definitely. And evolve.
Right. And grow. Yes. So, my dog's in the room with us and she keeps threatening to make a sound, so I'm just looking. And Amy's kind of,
[00:16:46] Annie: yeah,
[00:16:48] Music: she's
[00:16:48] Amy: good, she's good. Yeah. Bijou's good. The familiar always comes around. The witch's familiar comes around to let you know the score. Never to take things too seriously.
So you mentioned like if a client comes to you with say, you know, a broken heart or something, then you'll... You go into a trance and you'll receive the solution or the technique or whatever information that you need to, to go forward with that. Yeah. So,
[00:17:18] Annie: um, I wouldn't say client, but it's
[00:17:20] Amy: okay. Oh no, no.
Then please. Yeah. What, what would you say? A human being. Yeah. Your family.
[00:17:28] Annie: Um, Rarely scepticals will come and see me, that's for sure. Right.
[00:17:32] Amy: So people already have a certain faith.
[00:17:34] Annie: They're ready. They're ready for that. And even if they haven't received any type of healing that is similar to that, they're ready for it.
So, uh, but it's, it's pretty impressive how it has an impact on the short and long term. Thank you. Uh, yeah. On the healing and on the path of people.
[00:18:03] Amy: Yeah. Why? I'm going to play a piece of music, um, at the end of this, which is a piece that Annie and I collaborated on a couple, a year ago or so. And I, I wrote the music and Annie improvised the vocals, but it's based on an experience that she and I had with a friend.
And I really want her to tell you. Because I know my version, but I'm not sure if I've ever heard her version and then we'll tell you what happened and then we'll play the music. Well,
[00:18:34] Annie: that's, uh, you know, that's one thing that is difficult for me to come back to this particular place in time because it's something, you know, the capacity of a healer, man or woman or a shaman is to be able to be in the state of, uh, kind of, you know, Or a second state, if you will, like a state of, uh, just not physically being really here, but being, but not, you know, and to, to come back fast.
Yes. But whatever happens, like, in this process, it's difficult to kind of go back and, and seek. But, wow. Yeah.
[00:19:21] Amy: Because, I mean, the piece of music that I made that any saying on top of it definitely wasn't what happened that day. It was just like the remembering an emotion. So tell us the facts of it. Who was the woman and what was her problem?
[00:19:35] Annie: A mutual friend of our, a mutual friend of ours actually was living in, uh, a house at that moment, and she wasn't feeling secure. She was kind of feeling even secure to go outside of her house. Mm-Hmm. and, uh, kind of being blocked in this vortex actually. But even the house from outside, everything was shot and everything was covered and it was really intense.
And even energetically inside, you felt that something was... It was stagnating and kind of dark and
[00:20:07] Amy: closed and heavy, heavy,
[00:20:09] Annie: yeah, definitely. So we decided to, with the drums, spur the moment.
[00:20:15] Amy: Yeah, exactly. Because, okay, let me just say, Annie and I are very much like this, where somebody's like, Yeah. I have a problem.
Okay. All right, here's what we're gonna do.
[00:20:28] Music: Well, let's take action.
[00:20:29] Annie: Yeah, take action. We have the power to take action. So why not do it on the spot when we can.
[00:20:35] Amy: Thank you. And my great aunt Bea always used to say, it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. There you go, I love that. Ding, ding, ding, we love Anthe.
Okay, so she is not even taking walks in her new neighborhood because she's feeling so anxious. And she's literally, like, covered all the windows with, like, multiple draperies. Okay, and we decide we have to do something about this, so what do we do?
We
[00:21:00] Annie: actually started to walk with the drum outside the house and circulate around the house and just kind of channeling different voices and sounds and kind of really owning, first of all, owning her body, first of all, and owning the space where she was physically as well.
And, I mean, what happened there? It
[00:21:28] Amy: was a lot of like, breathing, like, but very like, loud, primitive, very primitive, not words from what I recall, I don't think so, but there was like, the banging of sticks together. I don't even think we had a drum, honestly, I don't even remember us actually having a drum. We
[00:21:45] Annie: had the two sticks!
We had the sticks!
[00:21:47] Music: You're right! We had the sticks!
[00:21:50] Amy: You're like, we gotta find something to hide. Yes, you're right. Oh, that's so good. Wow. And I remember our friend, you know, pulling up grass and rubbing it on her face and just trying to, like, be, take ownership of the whole, like her, like you said, her own body, but also her space and her house and her neighborhood.
[00:22:12] Annie: And... , the neighbor have this. Yeah. And we had a lot of, well, I don't know, but we had people passing by and and we were just like, this is your place and this is your house and own, and, and this is your buddy. And like, because she was
[00:22:30] Amy: like, oh, I, I see
[00:22:31] Music: coming. And we were like,
[00:22:33] Annie: exactly, you can exist and you're, you're
[00:22:36] Amy: allowed to make noise and you're, oh, I forgot about that part.
Manan. Yeah. Yeah. So she
[00:22:43] Annie: started, yeah, she, it wasn't, she started, she started, she started, yeah, she started. But like connecting with the dirt as well. Really like Yes. Touching dirt. Exactly. Mm-Hmm. and, oh wait. Yeah, and I think we finished inside with a fire. We
[00:23:01] Amy: burned the. We burned the sticks that we had been bashing together,
[00:23:05] Annie: right?
So that was actually a ritual of kind of a... Yeah,
[00:23:09] Amy: like totally impromptu, nothing we learned from a book or from a teacher. No, no, not exactly. I'm a big fan of that, you know, the universe is guiding you. Definitely. So, you know, say, even when I write spells for other people, I say, say what you want here, because if you're just saying what I said, then...
No, you need to put it, put it into your own words, always for sure. So the end of the story is, shall I wrap it up for the people who had a very intense and our experience and our goal was to open up our friend and allow her to take ownership of her space. And, and what ended up happening was her house burnt down and she got a divorce.
[00:23:51] Annie: There you
[00:23:52] Music: go. Bam. Bam.
[00:23:54] Amy: Um. We won't get into too much of the grimy specifics of that, but you know, people think that progress means things going right.
[00:24:07] Annie: Thank you for saying that. Right?
[00:24:08] Amy: Definitely. But healing is not Whatever
[00:24:13] Annie: the spirits or universe wants to happen and it's not always lullaby land. No
[00:24:19] Amy: Sometimes it's gonna require a trauma to force you to evolve in a certain way again I never want to encourage people to seek out trauma, but it definitely seems like a way that we evolve that's like human being.
Yeah But, I guess my point here is with Annie, the medicine woman, um, be careful what you wish for. Be careful what you pray for, because you might just get it.
[00:24:43] Music: Ah ho! Ah
[00:24:45] Amy: ho! Thank you so much, Annie, for joining us today. You are a delight and a pleasure, as always. Je t'aime mon amour.
[00:24:52] Music: Moi aussi!
[00:24:55] Amy: Okay, now here's some music Annie and I made together.
Check it out.
[00:24:58] Music: We love you. Enjoy!
I don't think anyone knows it but it's something about because no one ended up liking it.
[00:26:31] Annie: And I'm not gay...
[00:26:33] Music: It doesn't mean that there are some rich or middle class people who enjoy it. It's totally just... just a pill in people's hands.
Screeching More screeching More
Thanks for
[00:29:58] Amy: listening, witches. Um, if you can do one thing to help us find the witches we've been missing, I think the thing that we would ask is to send this to the one witch you know who might like it. Um, yeah, we think networks build one by one. So send it to your bestie and let's meet her and let's all meet each other on the internets.
Um, thanks. We love you. Bye.
