This week we're getting embodied with Mel Gutierrez, yoga teacher, personal trainer, energy healer, co-author of Exposing Yoga Myths, and scientific-minded body researcher who also believes in the realness of magical practices.
We discuss what it means to be a Witch, and further, what it means to be a Body Witch. Together we explore empowerment, pain, pleasure, religion, self-love, quantum physics, and taking Yoga 'off the mat' to view compassion as part of a yoga practice.
Mel wants us to radically fall in love with ourselves, touch ourselves in a loving way, talk to ourselves in a loving way and undo the mechanisms of self-judgment - to see ourselves a miraculous beings in this fleshy state.
One of Mel's mottoes is "More science, less Woo Woo" but she lives in both of these worlds as education and intuition intersect in her work. Her research (which includes neuro-science, anatomy, physiology, eastern medicine modalities of all kinds, witchcraft, etc.) is what has helped her to create individualized programs to help people even when they didn’t think they could be helped.
Mel says, "Be your own best friend, and you will know a liberation like no other."
Listen now, transcript below
Find Mel:
Mini Empowerment Course
Online Classes
The Body Witch Group Program
the book - Exposing Yoga Myths
Youtube
TRANSCRIPT
Amy: If you want to support the Missing Witches project, join the coven! Find out how at missingwitches. com. Or buy our books, New Moon Magic and Missing Witches. And check out our deck of oracles! The Missing Witches, Deck of Oracles.
Hi, Coven! And welcome to another episode of the Missing Witches podcast. My name is Amy, and I'm so In my guts, excited to hang out with today's guest, Mel Gutierrez, a. k. a. The Body Witch. Fuck yeah, Body Witch. I know that so many of you, not you, us, have been like struggling with our bodies.
Amy: I have to shout Risa out, who is not only battling cancer, but like a couple days before this recording also got appendicitis. Like, right? And so, like, this one goes out to Risa and all of us who are like, oh, my body, tell me what you want me to do. So, I'm going to pass the mic to you, Mel. Thank you so much for sitting down with me.
Amy: Like, who are you today? Where are you going? Where have you been? Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Mel: Thank you for that. And I, I, I want to start by sending Risa some very good energy protection, clarity of insight so that she can hear the voice of wisdom that her body has inherently so that she can follow through and, and also provide relief for herself.
Mel: She's in a fight and I honor her in that fight. So that goes out to you, Lisa. Um, I am the body, which I am not the only body, which I don't want to be the only body, which what my work in this world today. I like that question. It's too much when people are like, who are you? And I'm like, today or?
Amy: Yeah, I am an ever changing and metamorphosizing being.
Mel: I'm like, we got to cross, cross section that, narrow it down. So my work right now is very heavily focused on getting people to properly interpret the signaling that their physical body gives them. And I have a lot of science in my background to back that up and a lot of experience as an athlete to back that up.
Mel: But I'm also a practicing witch and have been my entire life. Actually don't know another way. Cause I grew up with both. Santeria. I'm not sure how familiar people might be with a Afro Caribbean diaspora.
Amy: I have Santeria on my list of topics to discuss with you. And I'm super excited to get into it. Yeah.
Amy: Yeah. Carry
Mel: on. Yes. Yes. So my background in ritual and ceremonial magic, even though I am not a practicing Santera, that is the background I came from. Um, is always imbuing this work. And now I feel really blessed to be in a place with clients that I can do that explicitly and offer them magic and ritual as a form of healing for themselves.
Mel: So that's where we're at today.
Amy: And you're also the co author of a book called Exposing Yoga Myths. I want to really get into that. Yeah. I feel like Western culture has Um, turned yoga into just like a, a, a fitness, but not like a holistic fitness, just like beach body, beach body yoga. But I need to like, go down to foundations first.
Amy: Um, The Body Witch. You have this great video on your YouTube channel called What is a Witch, where you're in conversation with another witch, an herbalist, a friend of yours, but for our listeners who haven't seen it yet, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes, y'all, don't worry, who haven't seen it yet, like, what is a witch to you?
Amy: So much of the Missing Witches project is just like trying to answer for ourselves that question of like, what even, what is a witch. So what does that word mean to you and why did you choose it as part of your
Mel: moniker? Yeah, thank you. I think that is, that's one of the reasons I was attracted to missing witches and I was like, oh, I want to hang out with these people.
Mel: I was like, these are, these bitches are my kind of bitches. So, you know, I think the reason that's very hard and it is an ever dynamic growing body of work is because when we say which we are already confronting the limitations of language and which can mean so many things. But for me, what I feel in my bones primarily is the call to explicit everyday guidance from nature and my ancestors and spirit guides in a way that I don't have to necessarily justify the voices that I follow my instincts by an externalized framework that is validated by others, aka organized religions, we can talk about a lot about that if you want to that's part of my scholarly background from college.
Mel: There's also in what defining what is which that's which for me that doesn't invalidate or delegitimize which dumb for those who are not necessarily working primarily with nature or those who aren't in touch with ancestors, you know, that's different work and so I don't either want to make it so myopic of a definition.
Mel: This is when we can have the the Smith College of Liberal Arts. discussion on wisdom, but there's also just calling up the archetypal energy of the person who lives on the fringes of society. And this often looked like the woman, the single woman who had herbal medicine living in the cottage outside the village, which was often a way to survive when other systems weren't really appealing.
Mel: But it's not limited to just that. So I want to just drop a few seeds and say that's where I go in that direction. But I do not think that that's a standard definition that all other witches, wizards, or magical beings have to adhere to.
Amy: And now the other part, the body part. The body part. Yeah, I, I I, again, personally, like, lifelong chronic illness, mental, physical, I sort of always, like, felt like, um, a mind trapped in a body that was my enemy, and I know, you know, Maria Minnis was on the show just a couple weeks ago, and she, without prompting, sort of said the same thing, that she, like, imagines herself as, like, an orb of light that is, like, someday will be freed from the shackles of the body.
Amy: But I don't want to feel like that anymore. I've tipped into the second half of my life, and I want to make friends with my body. I know so many of our Coven mates have chronic illness, chronic pain, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm not alone in this. For sure. But I, for all of us, like, how would you suggest that we become friends with our bodies?
Amy: Like, how do I embody my life? How do I get in good relation with this meat and bone sack that has, has, like, gratefully and thankfully gotten me this far?
Mel: Yeah, uh, I'm going to give, I'm going to give the truth and then we can go into the deeper dive how to get there because this might create a lot of resistance and I also honor that because no one, no matter what they look like, has a perfect body experience.
Mel: Okay, so as somebody who's come from a background of intense illness, near death, seizures, all kinds of shit. Including having to rebuild myself after COVID, the real nasty COVID, because I was in the hot spot in New York City when it dropped. It was really fun. Big party. So,
Mel: reclaiming your power, wherever you are in this moment, the foundation for that has to be self love and self acceptance. And this is not new information, so I would like to make it specific to what does that look like as we apply it operationally to the body and how we heal. That means you start to talk to yourself in a loving way.
Mel: You touch yourself in any regard in a loving way. You start to undo the mechanisms of self judgment that are standing in the way. Of you being able to touch and talk to yourself as if you are your number one fan, lover, and best friend. There is no wiggle room around this, folks. I'm so sorry. There is no halfway.
Mel: I want to meet people where they are, but I more than anything want you to fall in love with yourself and see the miraculous being that you are in this embodied, fleshy state. As difficult and ugly as it can be. But to rock. Fall in love with yourself radically and to honor the first temple. This is the first temple.
Mel: Your body is the first temple. And as anyone who's manifesting, which we're all always manifesting, how you relate to your physical temple. That'll be where you manifest first that will be reflected in everything around you that you manifest and another way to say that in a really grounded way in the scientific way that I love quoting somebody who I think is brilliant, um, the state of your nervous system is the projected reality you see all around you and that you perceive through whatever, whatever senses you have.
Mel: Even if you are not sighted and you have different sense capacity and capabilities, that is what is being projected and then bounced back to you. So healing primarily your relationship with your physical body is the primary foundational way to start cleaning up the messes externally as well.
Amy: When you talk about touching yourself, I mean, we can talk about masturbation because I feel like people who have been socialized as women, um, at least when I was coming up, this was not something that we talked about.
Amy: And I think it would be great if it were something that we talked about. Um, so you can talk about that here and please do. But I think you also mean just like a loving caress. Yes. Hugging yourself. Yes. Yes. Yeah,
Mel: I do. I do. Um, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt if I, if I did. Um, imagine having a really great partnership, whatever that looks like for you.
Mel: I don't care about the container and the sex is great. Let's say you have that, but that's all. And that you don't get a lot of touch or praise or connection outside of that. That is what we will build with ourselves. Even if we are able to reclaim our sexual vitality and our arrows in a magical and personally healing way, which is also what I want everyone to do.
Mel: And, and that is for you to define. There's no absolute standard for what that looks like. You can be an asexual human being and still accept yourself. Own your own truth of your sexuality and be in the making love to yourself by acceptance. That is, that is up to you to define and to own. I'm just interested in you getting there, doing the work.
Mel: But when you're showering, when you are putting on your lotion, when you're brushing your teeth, When you are confronting the parts of you that make you look away in the mirror, we all have them. When you are touching parts of yourself that might make you cringe a little bit. When you have a disease that you're dealing with.
Mel: An injury or a part of you that you feel is imperfect. This is not a reason to look away. It is an invitation to do the shadow work that is fundamentally healing for all of us. There really is no more primary way. To take care of this side of the business of self love touching and speaking to yourself also with love and kindness, which I'm not saying I can do perfectly all the time.
Mel: It's a process in which you catch it because you'll it'll sneak up on you. Those self flagellating voices, I know them well, and sometimes you don't even know it, but you have to be prepared with your practice to go, Oh, oh, I just forgot that I'm a bad ass bitch. Time to go to the mirror, look myself in the eyes and say, I fucking love you, and I'm going to fight for you, and I'm going to take care of you.
Mel: Because once you have that and you live in that every day, nothing else can fucking touch
Amy: you. There's something in, I think it's from the book about self love and you say like, to get in and do that mirror time and say like, thank you body, I love you. And that's something I think even, you know, those of us who are feeling disembodied can get into as a very easy and accessible practice, right?
Mel: Yes. And I've heard this theme before of like, I hate being in my body. I want to be a consciousness. And, and when you are people, by the way, where that's a real reality, that's reality, where there's an explicit reality where you can join up with other people and astrally project somewhere, or you yourself get to be in another state.
Mel: That's all wonderful. And none of that could happen unless you were in a body. Yeah. Okay, because what you're talking about are state changes that are now measurable through modern science, catching up to what we've known for tens of thousands of years as a, as a human species, right? Like, maybe not with the same conscious level of awareness, but manipulating these internal structures to the nervous system, we can make it very grounded, which is state change.
Mel: You use your senses to create a different state of being. That wouldn't happen if you didn't have this nervous system. So acceptance about the fact that you are embodied and stop pushing it away because you deny yourself great power, some of your greatest powerful tools as a witch.
Amy: Hi, I love that you investigate the nervous system.
Amy: There's like, in the introduction of the book, there's this like, big black and white square that says, um, let me get it right, more science, less woo woo. And that like, obviously I was like, Yeah, you know, because people tend to think that because we identify as witches that somehow that that's separate from science, but for us, that's like, that's like very, very integrated.
Amy: And you have a BA in psychology and religious studies. Um, can you talk about how, like, education and intuition have sort of, like, intersected in your work?
Mel: Ooh, that's, I like that. Education and intuition. Cause it's, it's really, I think, um, it's a sexy idea to be like, and I'm going to own my ego position in this when I'm like, I'm going to learn about the sciences so I can corroborate what I experienced and then be able to sell it to people legitimately.
Mel: And then I, you know, like, then we'll, we'll, we'll clear it all up. And there's a lot of, I'm, I'm grateful for that impetus because it means that I have a really valid context and starting point that we can all relate to that I'd like to consider anatomical and physiological reality, right? That's a, that's a nice place.
Mel: Um, and then there are the places where our sciences, our hard sciences are not frankly advanced enough to be able to measure or create a standardized report of experience on the womb. And I am someone who lives every single day in the womb. Like that skeleton and I were slow dancing last night because it was a full moon and I wanted to release fears around intimacy and vulnerability.
Mel: So I don't want to live with that on my death bed. So I picked up my death skeleton and I was like, we're going to dance this out, buddy. We had Now, can I corroborate the experience of that in a scientifically measurable way? I can't do that today, but I don't have to. Because I'm not trying to sell to anyone, or even to myself, quote unquote, what is real.
Mel: I just know what feels good for me. Then reality, a shared reality, is where I think formal education is very useful, because reality is already a dicey place to try to define, especially when you have more than one person in the room. So that's where I do like to have a scholarship that allows me to speak on a different wavelength, or just to be heard in a different channel.
Amy: And tell me more about the like religious history aspect of your education. Why was that important to you to study faith?
Mel: I know I struggle with the diphthong with the, with the S as well, diphthongs and sibilants. Um, so that came about because I was very, very interested in reading and learning about different cultures.
Mel: I was very hungry for it. And at the time, the college I was in, Smith College has a great literature department, but it was like, you get one comparative language and then all the like, it's like, Classic literature that was a lot of old white dudes, which I don't take their power away like thank you guys like that was great but I needed something with a little more diversity and I realized that if I was looking for primary source material that also exemplified culture, then I could just go to religion.
Mel: And I would get a fantastic lens there through scripture, primary source material, and then seeing how that evolved in a cultural landscape.
Amy: And please expand, um, tell me about your, um, investigation of Santeria, and you said it's sort of like a, you know, uh, uh, um, kind of an ancestral place. practice for you.
Amy: And so how did, how did you get drawn in? Like, you said you're not initiated, but like, so what does your practice look like? Tell me, I want to sit back for a minute and just listen to you talk about Santeria.
Mel: Oh, thank you. I, I can't tell you how much this means to me. Because, and it makes me a little emotional, because part of my work is representation of myself is, um, I'm always immediately, uh, categorized as Wiccan, which is wonderful, and I'm so happy that's so open and out there, and it just reflects that we have, in our larger society, a very narrow view of what the witch is, or what our traditional magical practice is.
Mel: So I love getting to talk about my background. Um, I am Mexican and Puerto Rican, the Mexican side of me on my father's side, very heavily Catholic. So that was an interesting mixture of things and backdrop, which, which is interesting to little Melissa, because a little Melissa grew up also with a port and Puerto Rican mother.
Mel: And that's where the Santaria comes in. And so I was raised with both, not knowing like a goldfish in the water, just immersed, not knowing that one was different from the other, and they didn't necessarily appear different. Um, Santeria is very strong in its presentation, the altars of the deities. Um, my mother's deity, uh, is a, a god of war and thunder, Chang'e, and so the, the, the way it looks, the fierceness that is embodied, It's something that I was normal, I normally grew up with and I was like, Oh, that's the altar with Shango and like, and that's the coconut that lives in the corner that we don't touch because mom tells me it cleanses the energy, you know, like shit as a kid that you don't know how to categorize necessarily is different.
Mel: Like you're just doing it. And then I would go to like Catholic mass, which is yes, uh, completely different, right. It's a different animal, but also full of death magic. And that's how I saw it. As a little kid because I was like, and I was really caught up in the Jesus saga, and he went through a lot of shit, but like seeing the resurrection but also seeing the suffering and, and all of that and yes there's a mixed bag of what that leaves you with psychologically, but It was interesting for little Melissa to, to deal with those tensions within the home.
Mel: And then as I was growing up and leaving the house, things I was told I was, was, and was not allowed to talk about. And I used to also attend exorcisms and house cleansings with my mother, who was doing that for friends and, and people who requested it. So I was always her little assistant. So I also grew up seeing energies and, and, and doing the exorcisms and seeing the demons and knowing how to cast Felt of protection for myself and, you know, So it was a weird day.
Mel: I'm very, very, very grateful for my upbringing because it gave me this very interesting perspective of, um, okay, I don't practice Santeria now, because that is not my path, but I have those elements, honorillas, with me. And I don't claim to practice in a certain way because I give respect to my Santera friends and Santero friends who have done that IFA and Palo Santo, you know, all of that work.
Mel: But. I have my Yemaya Lady of the Waters card that I've had since I was six up in my bathroom. Like, there are just things that don't go away. So, and it was, it was also helpful because I'm not afraid of death the same way. I think that's a big reason why I love Halloween, horror movies, and death magic is an easy one for me because you grow up with that scary fucking images and shit all the time on both ends of that experience and yeah, you, you adapt.
Amy: Tell me more about your, like, as a body witch, tell me more about your concept of death. What happens when we die?
Mel: I wish I knew. I do. It's a really easy
Amy: question. Come on. Everybody knows the answer to this one.
Mel: I love, this is why I love getting to speak to our type of people because it's like, this is, this is the normal shit that rolls around in our heads. Like what does happen? I don't know what happens exactly when we die.
Mel: I can say for myself. And I know I'm not alone in this. The voices of my ancestors and spirit guides are strong and clear. I do believe in what I do know about the hard sciences and what they've proven about energy and the universe, that nothing ever gets wasted or it may be dispersed. maybe shifted.
Mel: There's just too much, I think, real scientific evidence as well as anecdotal evidence for the idea that there isn't anything on the other end of that passage, but there isn't enough evidence to concretely, in my opinion, and confidently create an absolute standard for anybody else. And I think that's where things can get dangerous.
Mel: Um, but I do embrace in a liberating way. Every day that my body is aging, that things are different and that that is not a flaw that is part of my evolution and it's part of the signaling that tells me how to continue living in a health span for as long as I will be here. So I'm in, I'm 43 now, and things are very, very different.
Mel: And I'm learning to apply the tools of self love and acceptance and go, Oh, right, I am slowly decaying. And some people don't like that language and that's okay. You don't have to use that language. You can use something else. But we're slowing down. This is normal. This is part of the order. And when I connect to it that way in my body, I don't feel afraid.
Mel: I feel very connected to humanity, to the human experience. And I feel instantly transported to the arms of the ancestors who do wait for me for my dog, who I miss still from high school, you know, for, for every element that I see, um, that demonstrates that cycle of life and rebirth for me. Did that answer the question?
Mel: I mean,
Amy: it answered it as well as I think any of us humans can answer it. I don't, I don't know if you've ever read any, um, by Jean Gonzalez Whipler, but she's also Puerto Rican, also, um, grew up in Santeria, and she has a whole book about, like, arguing, Um, using the laws of, like, thermodynamics and electromagnetism, you know, again, that, like, science based woo woo.
Amy: If we can use that kind of paradoxical phrase. And I think, like, to use a word that, um, is very core to you, It's empowering. Can you talk about empowerment? Open a big, cast a big wide net for me. What is empowerment? What does it feel like in the body? And how do I fucking get there?
Mel: Well, as someone who never struggles and has gotten there perfectly.
Mel: No, that's, that's definitely not true. I think empowerment is also a process, but I like to, I like the idea of casting the net wide. Um, Empowerment for me, and when hearing that question, is about accepting what I desire as truth, no matter what that desire is, and that can be in every area of your life, folks.
Mel: Um, not lying to myself about it, even if I don't take action on it, just letting myself in the privacy of my own mind, in the mirror talk, know what my desires are. That's already empowering, because I'm, I'm living in truth. My own truth, and I don't have to hide that. Um, I am not saying that it is then your responsibility to enact that truth.
Mel: Not everybody gets to live in a system where all truths are safe or without real risk of harm. Um, so that's, that again is a more complicated issue. But at least knowing the truth within yourself, and then having the willingness where it is possible, and the risk is manageable, to take action and fight for it.
Mel: Where's your inner fight? Where's your inner protector for your truth, your desires? Who is advocating for them? Who is going to help you move towards them? So what I find empowering about that is that life, life is hard, but I can either sit in the shit when I get knocked down, or I can get the fuck back up.
Mel: I'm not interested in living my human life. and not making the most of it. I don't see the point otherwise. I don't want to resign myself to rolling around in the misery, so I will fight for myself in every way possible. That's all I got.
Amy: That's it. That's, that's very empowering. And you, you do, you're like an empowerment teacher.
Amy: What, how, how do people come to you? Like describe what, I don't, client, student, Describe what that's like in case some of our listeners can relate to that feeling and maybe break out of it.
Mel: Totally, totally. I think, not surprising, I don't think, based on our conversation, this will surprise anyone. Most of the time people will come to me, um, it's a little different now because the marketing material is different.
Mel: Marketing is a different thing. But, uh, most of the time people come to me to solve body problems because usually there's a word of mouth or someone will see a video or take a class and then they'll go, oh, Okay, I think you can help me. And most of the time I can, which is great to say, and I'm proud of that, that it's a most of the time, and I'm also proud to say that I have a great referral network, and not afraid to shove my own ego up my ass and go, you know what, I don't know what this is, but I do have a friend who does, you know, and that to me is part of the work.
Mel: like getting everybody into this empowerment mode. So we start, let's say we start working together and it's like either I'm healing something through rehab or I want to feel differently in my body. The conversations around, I want to look different in my body. You're a personal trainer are much shorter.
Mel: I'm very much less interested in aesthetic training. Static training is not what people think it is. Um, and it falls apart really fast. Especially as we age. So that shit you see on TV or in movies, just know that nobody looks like that all the time. For real. It's just most, unless you are genetically gifted in some way, most of us, including myself.
Mel: Don't, don't get to have that. So the conversation really revolves around healing the self and then on the most basic, like, Hey, we're going to do some strength training. We're going to build muscle. This is all great. And then I'm waiting for those opportunities to go. Do you feel that? Do you like how that feels?
Mel: And there's usually a lot of resistance to this process because once you do start strength training, it's uncomfortable for some women, not all, there is still feeling uncomfortable in a gym because you're usually the only women in the weight weight room, and you don't know what to do and you're not trained to do that so we've moved through through that, but that is an empowerment process.
Mel: And then that usually will open the doors for another conversation around like, Hey, do you want to, you want to be able to apply this to other areas of your life? Do you want to invoke this fire? Oh, are you starting to feel what this like rage? People are like, I'm angry. And I'm like, yeah, you're hyper adrenalized.
Mel: What's what's there, you know? And then we can start talking about like inner predator work, how to make this translate off the mat, stuff that, that kind of thing, which I love.
Amy: Yeah, I have a friend who spent some time in an ashram, and a lot of their work was the exact words you used, that off the mat, how to practice yoga, as like, and that's what I loved about the book.
Amy: Again, it's called Exposing Yoga Myths. So, two part question. drove you to conceive of the book. And secondly, something that was really exciting for me, as a Western person, was that y'all wrote that yoga can be meditation, pranayama, that's breath, right? Yes. And or acts of compassion. So part one, why exposing yoga myths and part two, how are acts of compassion part of a yoga practice?
Mel: Isn't that amazing? Um, I, I, we felt called that book was written, um, and was inspired by a blog that my business partner in the time at the time, who is still one of my best friends, and I had, I want to say, like, we started our work together in 2020. Right. So we're really going back there. And we were very popular in the yoga industry, which is, which was trendy at the time.
Mel: It was very, and it still is, but it was very intense. Um, and We were very upset about seeing a practice that we recognize depth that we had done scholarly learning about its background, and we felt frankly that it was being twisted dishonored and stripped of its cultural heritage. In order to continue to fund capitalism, you know, and and I'm, by the way, folks, I'm very proud capitalist as long as I get to take the money and then redistribute it in the way that I see fit that elevate to all of us.
Mel: So, um, you know, so that was why we were inspired to do it and then we had a third author in there who helped us and. A lot of the blog posts inspired the the work and we just wanted to get the message out and there's stuff in there that maybe changes with scientific updates, you know, it's older, but the real message was, please know what this system is.
Mel: Specifically from another culture, honor it for what it is and recognize that you are not going to the gym to get a fucking sweat and a workout in. This is yoga. This is a systematic exploration of you as a spiritual being in an embodied state. To try to pretend it's anything other than that is, for us, I'm not saying anybody else has to be in this line, is offensive.
Mel: This You can make it whatever you want, but you have to at least acknowledge. Where you're coming from in the same way that if in a magical practice, I want to start working with a particular deity, I would ask permission. I would do the research to know where I'm coming from, what the cultural background is so that I can appropriate it with kindness and gratitude and integrity and not just appropriate with unconsciousness.
Mel: We're all appropriate all the time too. I just want to do it consciously. With integrity. So that was the real inspiration of it. And also so that people stop struggling because there's also, and I'm just going to get really frank for a moment, my language here. There's a lot of bullshit in the yoga and fitness industry that is racketeering and profiteering off of people's insecurities about what they feel and look like in their bodies.
Mel: And that is disgusting to me. It's not something I can stand by. And then also profit off of myself and not speak out on it. So that's where a lot of that came from.
Amy: And then part two, how are acts of compassion part of a yoga practice?
Mel: I was like, there was a much more
Amy: important question in
Mel: there, Melissa.
Mel: Listen, if
Amy: anybody asks me two questions, there's no way I'm remembering the second question. I don't know why I would do it to you.
Mel: The acts of compassion are, so again, yoga as a system. Of spiritual exploration from a country and a culture that we can't and I can't necessarily identify with no matter how much scholarly ship you do it, you're not in it right so you try to take it and make it fit and shove it into the hole that star shaped pig into this hole over here, and all of that work.
Mel: is to be able to liberate yourself outside of the conditions of human suffering. That's as far as we know. We don't know a lot about the history of yoga in a lot of ways.
Amy: So, um, let me just interrupt for a second because it's so old. It's older even than Hinduism. Um, and that is so fascinating to me, but carry on.
Mel: Yes. Thank you. No, thank you. Thank you for bringing that up in that It's also really important that when we have these conversations have those side notes because we don't know. We're going, you know, like we go into other people's cultural shit to study it, which is great, but then we create these codified categories and names and it's like, we don't really know.
Mel: Human beings have been playing with their embodiment for a long time with some evidence that is written, if we're lucky enough, but we don't fucking know, like shits all over the place. So like, that's the. That's the scholarly, please take that quote, shits all over the place. So when you're in that liberation exploration, compassion, which is a thread that runs through Eastern philosophy, self compassion.
Mel: So acts of self compassion, the self love, the kind self talk, re evaluating the lens through which you view your body. Those are acts of yoga because yoga is about liberation. Right. And so I'm being conscious of my time before I start going into the etymology of the remnants of Sanskrit, I remember. So, okay, so yoga is, you break down the language of yoga, like the word yoga means, it means the yoking of opposites.
Mel: So it is a perceived opposites exploration because Eastern philosophy was very, I'm saying was because it's past stuff we're talking about, but in comparison to Western philosophies is non dualistic. Dualism is in the Western conception of I am a brain and then I have a body and those things are separate.
Mel: And then, and so this, that again is a lens that works to see the world in those lenses. Like in Eastern philosophy, nothing. is really separate from anything else that those are just perceptive categories we create now that is being proven more and more in quantum physics anyone who's interested in the more advanced science is right what's coming forward so it doesn't invalidate all the good things that happen in western science but this is partly why we have this difficulty of like trying to stick the peg in the wrong hole so as you're yoking opposites in that compassion practice of the self and the body, you might perceive, I don't like this arm for whatever reason.
Mel: And then you start playing with your perceptions of why, how do I define it as an arm? What does it mean that it's mine? Why isn't it living up to a standard? Where'd that standard come from? And so you start doing all that shit. And it's, and if you're not kind to as you examine, your lenses and you don't have the compassion or the self love practice, it's a lot rougher and sometimes damaging.
Amy: I want to tie these two threads together because, again, they sound like opposites, but to me, um, they're, they, they share connective tissue and that is like empowerment and compassion. You know, we kind of might think of power as being like an aggressive, self serving. So, yeah. Tie it in a bow for me. Stitch together the connective tissue between empowerment and compassion.
Mel: If an intruder were to break into my house, I would hold nothing back to kick the shit out of them and kill them if necessary, because I will choose myself. And as they die, and I have the cops coming, I will hold them so they don't have to face that transition alone.
Mel: Does that help?
Amy: Yes. And how can I implement this connective tissue in my day to day life when I'm not faced with an intruder? Although, you know, if we think of intruders as just like people who are trying to get into your head,
Mel: then
Amy: it's easier to conceive, right?
Mel: Right. And I, and I, and I use the hyperbolic statement of that example because it's just easy to illuminate and to kind of go, Oh, that makes it a little more obvious.
Mel: Um, And there are scholars of compassion who might quibble on that, folks, by the way, anything is up for polemical debate at all times. Um, but I think what that looks like on the micro level is, do I have a thought that is serving me or that is hurting me? And how do I compassionately draw the boundary around that?
Mel: Is there a person who is coming at me in a certain way? How can I, with power, Lovingly hold the boundary around that. You don't have to lovingly hold everyone, I leave that up to you folks, but you can be boundaried. You can fight for yourself, you can choose yourself first, and you can be skillful in how you use your power, and then you can invite in the compassion.
Mel: This takes a lot of practice. It's nicely said, it takes a lot of practice.
Amy: Thank you so much for sitting down with me. I know that our listeners, um, I'm sure that they're relating to so much of what you're saying. So, what would be the best way for our listeners who are intrigued by what you're saying to support you? Get in touch with you obviously. Again, the name of the book is Exposing Yoga Myths and it is a quick read real quick and it's beautifully laid out.
Amy: It feels like you're really getting a lot of of bang for the word count, so don't be intimidated listeners if you're interested in this book. It really is not at all.
Mel: Yeah, it was meant to be a fat digestive read that triggers thought, and there's also a free. Course I've created that talks a lot about what, what Amy and I just ended on, like, how do I start doing this compassionate empowerment work?
Mel: And it was a course I created specifically for, which is. to step out of trauma and into their power, uh, both using magical and practical tools. And that is something that like, that will wrap, would be a really interesting experience. And that is also fast because we all know how we're operating these days.
Mel: It's a free one. There's like five videos in there with some workbook stuff. And you do like, you know, you get through it. Each video is like five to 10 minutes. And that's a link that I can provide also that Amy can put up.
Amy: Yeah, all of these links will be in the show notes. I'll link to your YouTube channel and to your book and all of that.
Amy: And I know you're on Instagram. You want to drop your handle for those who might want to follow you. I don't know if you're on TikTok
Mel: or Facebook or all those, but there's only so much I can handle.
Amy: Seriously.
Mel: The body, which is my Instagram handle. Um, and that work. The videos you see, you're going to see a variety of things and that work is still evolving over time.
Mel: So it's like a nice patchwork of what I'm into. Yeah, that'll be all kinds of stuff.
Amy: So Mel and I are here to tell you that, to tell me, rather, that, The body is not the enemy. It has at least gotten us this far to be sitting in these chairs talking to each other over zoom today. I want to underscore again that your body is the first temple, the first gift that you're given in this human life.
Amy: And if that means scented oils, if that means, you know, masturbation, if that means getting into a mirror and just saying like, thank you body, I love you body. I am currently wrapping my arms around myself and giving myself a hug. This is like an important practice for me to, um, just to try to get out of feeling like my body is the enemy.
Amy: You know, I've spent too much of my life Cultivating my intellectual, my cerebral, and sort of just being mad at this body for feeling like a prison. And now, thank you so much Mel for helping me to sort of deconcretize those, to stretch. Emotionally, and not just in a yoga Madonna way, but to stretch. Um, is there, are there any parting words that you have for the listening coven before I thank you again?
Mel: Um, be your own best friend folks. And you will know a liberation like no other.
Amy: A liberation like no other. Thank you so much, Melissa Gutierrez. Again, the book is Exposing Yoga Myths, the YouTube channel, the Instagram, um, courses, classes, find all of that stuff in the show notes, or head over to The Body Witch on Instagram and check it out.
Amy: Thank you so much, Melissa. What a treasure to get to talk to you today.
Mel: Thank you. Thank you.
Mel: I know we're past our, our time. I have a little time and this part might not make it on the podcast, but I just saw a last minute question, if it's okay to.
Amy: Oh, I missed it. Sorry, babe. Let's yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a question from a coven mate in the chat. I'll read it to you and then you can answer it.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely.
Mel: Absolutely. Thanks
Amy: for noticing that Mel. I had totally tuned in. There's
Mel: only so much you can do when you're like doing all the tech hosting too
Amy: by
Mel: the way. There's a lot going on here.
Amy: So, what advice do you have for someone that is in an active flare up and feels like their body is harming them to have compassion and help with healing?
Mel: Hmm, that's a great question. Thank you. It's Kalika, I think. Um, so, This is where I would be like, I'd want to do an intake and understand what does flare up mean to you, in your body, and of course, this is not the space for all of that, but I think your question is still pertinent in that we all have these acute, chronic, or just moments, right?
Mel: So what I would want to know is what you're doing mentally. Emotionally and physically to reduce inflammation and inflammation is like another great word that we can throw around and I want to like bang my head against the wall when I see a lot of things around it and that's okay. So I'm sure you're aware of, and the reason I'm using inflammation is because when I think flare up, those are the first kinds of body things that come to mind is there's like, I'm in an acute upset of some kind, and flare up is usually what I hear around Arthritis.
Mel: Um, any of the, I, I just is that could note, uh, inflammation. So if I'm off base, we can, you can always follow up with me in a later email or something. So you actually get the answer that applies to you. It's important that you not just do the physical work, but the emotional and mental work to keep yourself calm.
Mel: As I get older and as my clients age with me, and I help a lot of people through perimenopause, and I'll be going through that, which I'm so excited about, in actually a real way, um, the compartmentalization we do around our emotions, When it's too much compartmentalization costs, a lot of physical energy, how you manage your mental and emotional state, how you regulate your nervous system on a daily basis.
Mel: And how often sounds like a conversation about energetic hygiene, but it's also about how you keep your nervous system primed for a more relaxed state and to drop into some state where it can actually heal itself. So that's where I would go. I'd want to know what you're doing mentally and emotionally to manage all of it as well.
Mel: I hope that helps.
Amy: Yeah. And if you have follow up questions, like, please reach out to Mel on social media. Um, I'll be happy to, again, share all of those links in the show notes, so you can head over to missingwitches. com and check all of that out. Thank you again so much for your empowerment and for your compassion.
Mel: This was an amazing time, everyone. Thank you for giving me a little bit of space to share. This was so fucking cool.
Amy: And blessed fucking be! Blessed
Mel: be, everybody. Take care.
Amy: You must be a witch. If you want to support the Missing Witches Project, join the coven. Find out how at missingwitches. com. Or buy our books, New Moon Magic and Missing Witches.
Amy: And check out our deck of oracles. The Missing Witches deck of oracles.
