EP 207 WF Maria Minnis: An Invitation To Explore

In today's episode, Amy is joined by tarot reader and teacher Maria Minnis (aka feminnis), author of the upcoming "Tarot for the Hard Work: An Archetypal Journey to Confront Racism and Inspire Collective Healing". We invite listeners to explore Rage, Responsibility, Tarot, Collaboration, Care, Liberation and the information contained within. At times, Maria's altar has been a shoe box, and Maria reminds us that some of her most powerful magic has come from this humble place. "The revolution is ultimately anti-capitalist."

LISTEN NOW, TRANSCRIPT BELOW

Maria Minnis is a Black, Jewish, queer, and autistic tarot reader of 20+ years who teaches about blending spirituality with everyday magic, liberation work, and sensuality. She believes that the end result of all magic should be to cultivate a more equitable and empathetic planet.

FIND MARIA ON HER WEBSITE AND FOLLOW FEMINNIS ON INSTAGRAM

and

Preorder Tarot for the Hard Work NOW!

Tarot for the Hard Work is ready for preorder now!

It is a practical tarot workbook to confront racism, inspire personal insight, and prompt social change. It includes 60+ essays, hundreds of activities, and 21 exercises for building your own antiracism toolkit that’s customized to how you—yes, you—can uniquely work to demolish structural racism in your everyday life.

This is a book that speaks to both white and BIPOC audiences—for BIPOC, how the shadow aspects and card energy have affected or shown up or manifested in the internal and external life, and for white people, how those same aspects can become an education process to help identify how they’ve been part of the problem and can be part of the solution. The author addresses the human community as a whole, and how racism affects our relationships to each other, to our communities, and to our institutions. For all readers, this book addresses how the energy can be turned around into self-awareness, self-love, and positive action.This is a book that speaks to both white and BIPOC audiences—for BIPOC, how the shadow aspects and card energy have affected or shown up or manifested in the internal and external life, and for white people, how those same aspects can become an education process to help identify how they’ve been part of the problem and can be part of the solution. The author addresses the human community as a whole, and how racism affects our relationships to each other, to our communities, and to our institutions. For all readers, this book addresses how the energy can be turned around into self-awareness, self-love, and positive action.

Interested in contributing to the Missing Witches Zine? Check out our submissions info and get in touch!

TRANSCRIPT

Amy: Join us this Saturday, October 14th, for a virtual communal spellcasting, Witch and Stitch, book launch. Find all the details on our website, and if you want to support the Missing Witches Project, find out how. at www. missingwitches. com. 

Amy: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Missing Witches podcast. My name is Amy and I'm so pleased and delighted and filled with warmth to finally be sitting face to face through a computer but face to face with Maria Minnis aka Feminist. Maria is a Black, Jewish, queer, and autistic Tarot worker of 20 plus years. 

Amy: Who teaches about blending spirituality with everyday magic, liberation work, and sensuality. She believes that the end result of all magic should be to cultivate a more equitable and empathetic planet. I think of you. Maria, as the Audre Lorde of tarot. Like, age, race, sex, class, intersectionality, but all through this lens of tarot. 

Amy: But before we get into all that, 

Maria: What a compliment! Sorry, I the listeners, I'm just sitting here with my mouth totally ajar. And what a, what a nice thing to say. Thank you. Yeah. 

Amy: I mean, it's, it's all there, right? But then you've like, you've put on these glasses of tarot through which you, you view all of these, um, some might say disparate, but in your work, very blended ideas. 

Amy: So that part of that was the, your, like from your bio, from your website. So what do you want our listeners to know extra about you or like, who are you today? Why are you today? 

Maria: Yeah, that's a really great question. Um, so yes, my magic is Centered around every day practice. I love my altar, but I think my most magical spells happened beyond the altar. 

Maria: And I think that's the case in a highly interconnected universe. Like, your magic is never just about yourself, because as you evolve and your magic evolves, the way you present yourself in the world evolves as well. And that ripples outward and so on and so forth. And so I'm just thinking like. Why? Why wouldn't my magic be more than just about myself? 

Maria: Um, if we, let's say, hypothetically, we did everything to reach a point of self satisfaction, and then we die. It's like, well, what, what was our witchcraft for in the first place? Um, and so, yeah, so I'm just teaching folks how to blend magic, um, and their spiritual side with everyday magic. Life and realize that the two don't have to be, um, completely separate. 

Maria: Um, there's a lot of opportunity for them to be blended together. And I think that there is a lot of opportunity for both personal and collective growth when we consider integrating all of those things into how we show up every day. 

Amy: Yes. And, and whether or not we show up every day, 

Maria: right? Ooh, you're right. 

Amy: Yeah. You said you love your Whoa. Yeah. You said you love your altar. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about like the, the physical manifestation of, of what that space looks like? 

Maria: Yeah. So my altar has always Just looked like the living situation I've been in when I got back into working with altars, like, I don't know, five, seven, however many years ago. 

Maria: Um, I made this really fancy altar with like, you know, I had my own space. And so I had all of the like crystals and the flowers and I would change it with every season and such. When I moved into a one bedroom, a tiny one bedroom with my, um, ex partner, um, my altar was a shoebox. Um, and some of the most powerful spells have come and have been inspired from that place. 

Maria: Currently, my altar is A tiny table beside my desk and instead of being filled with, um, so many like, uh, symbolic things. Well, nevermind. Let me take this back. Yes, there are things like crystals and tarot cards and such on it, but there are also things that make me feel. Connected to the divine within, including a ceramic cat that my friend Hillary, my friend, I say friend, but she's like my sister, that she has had with her since childhood. 

Maria: She gave it to me last summer and it's the pinnacle of my altar because my love for her is. Boundless and infinite, and it just reminds me of the spaciousness there is in this world. And every time I try to box myself in or feel like I've made choices that have put me into a corner, I can Glance over there and remember, one, I'm loved, two, my life is spacious, three, I can take up space, and four, my inner child deserves to dance. 

Amy: Well. 


Maria: I, I, I, you said I could ramble, you know, 

Amy: The big ending there, the, my inner child deserves to dance, like, please expand. 

Maria: Right. So, I am working through a lot of CPTSD stuff now. Um, some of your listeners may know that I I tend to share a lot about my personal life because I think it's a reflection of the magic I do, and it also helps me feel Like, I can connect with people in a more profound way than just being like, hey, it's Monday. 

Maria: This is the moon sign. This is how you're supposed to feel. I'm just like, this is how the hierophant is showing up in my life and I don't like it. Um, and so, um, going back to your question, um, Inner child. I've been working with a lot of this trauma work, and I last year exited a almost decade long abusive relationship, uh, physically, financially, emotionally, et cetera. 

Maria: Um, and I. And now at the point where I am brave enough to face a lot of the issues that arose from that, and I am finding that a lot of the issues did not, were not just born in that relationship, they stem from childhood. And now I feel like I am accessing this sort of Rage. Like, I look at Children in my neighborhood and I'm like, you know, like, I couldn't imagine them going through what I've gone through and like, it makes me angry. 

Maria: And so I was talking to my therapist and she was like, anger isn't one of your emotions. Like your typical emotions. Don't worry. I have plenty of other vices. It's just very hard to get me angry. Um, but she told me, how can you use that rage productively and so I've just been tapping into the things that make me feel like a kid again, whether that's wearing childlike clothes or, you know, just throwing it. 

Maria: Reckless, abandoned to the wind and dancing in the middle of street or whatever, um, just noticing in my body where I am telling myself no, noticing in my mind where I am telling myself no, and noticing how that feels in my body and how do I want to use. that knowledge to heal. And by heal, I don't mean that life has to be all about healing and growing and evolution, but like, how can I heal toward more pleasure? 

Amy: On the subject of pleasure, I feel like, um, we have to get into Kinky tarot, but I, I first, um, I have to say like this question of how can you use that rage productively? I mean, I feel like so many of us are just like boiling constantly and it can be difficult to use. find ways to, to focus rage and do some shit productive with it. 

Amy: So like, what's like, what's like your bumper sticker of advice for our listening coven on like, how to focus and use your rage productively? 

Maria: Hmm. I think I'm still figuring it out. I think that it requires a lot of empathy toward yourself. And I think while that can be difficult to cultivate, practicing it with other people makes it a lot easier to have empathy on yourself. 

Maria: And when you realize, you know, I am angry. That's not a bad thing. That doesn't mean I'm an evil person. I just have this energy and I don't know what to do with it. Take that as an invitation to explore what to do with it. That's not necessarily a bumper sticker, but using your feelings as like, kind of, uh, guideposts and instead of taking it at, um, at face value, I'd like to think about, um, I'd like to talk about in my teaching about holographic thinking, and that is all about taking one thing, let's say anger, and then viewing it from all sorts of different angles, levels of light, and noticing the shadows and, you know, being willing to, you know, walk all around that thing, see, you know, all of its sides, all of its facets, and be like, okay, now I can craft a more Comprehensive, um, perspective of this thing that if I were to have just said, I'm angry, what do I do about it? 

Maria: So I guess my my bumper sticker would be like, study your anger. Like, don't be afraid of it. I was terribly afraid of my anger because Like I said, I don't really get angry and I hate being angry. I, you know, like if other people are mad, I'm like, I'm just going to be mad over there because I'm good. But, um, it's, it's a new thing that I'm working through and I just invite anyone who feels like they are bottling up rage to... 

Maria: Honestly, befriend it and not push it away because it doesn't have to come out in, um, physically or verbally violent ways. It's just information. And that's something you can run with. 

Amy: And an invitation. I love this. Like, this is an invitation to explore. 

Maria: Yes, that's the word 

Amy: invitation. Yeah, when my rage boils up, I will reframe it as an invitation to explore. 

Amy: Thank you. Okay, so back to tarot. Again, we're going to talk about sex and tarot. We're going to talk about anti racism and tarot. But first, I want to know, like, how did you um, Um, maybe two parter. How or when did you, like, start thinking of yourself as a witch who does witchcraft? And how and when did you discover and or start working with tarot, the cards themselves? 

Amy: Yeah, 

Maria: I when did I consider myself to be a witch? You know what you that's a great question because it's prompting this like profound moment that I'm like feeling all over my body right now and all within my body, which is I look back. In my life, and I'm like, I think I've always been a witch. You know, I was a pretty weird, creepy child. 

Maria: Um, and when someone gave me a used tarot deck, I didn't have like the little white book or anything. And so, yeah, Me being me is like, okay, I'll assign my own meanings to these things. And so my practice comes from a very, um, I encourage people to do what I did, which is develop a very personal relationships with personal relationships with the cards, the archetype, the artistry. 

Maria: And later, I, you know, learned the more collectively shared meanings of each card, and that has been, I don't want to discount the value of collective energy and collective, um, knowledge because we all have been crafting, um, and evolving this process. Thank you. practice, this tarot thing, for as long as it's existed. 

Maria: Um, and so I don't want to discount all of the work that has been put into it. But for me, tarot has always been a tool for me to 

Maria: stop and sit with the weird I don't know the weird like motley crew of characters that sit before me and like string together a story. I am a writer. And when I read tarot, I feel like I am writing and reading and living the story at the same time. And so Considering who I was, this little, like, 11 or 12 year old with this tarot deck that, you know, meant nothing more to me than what I had defined it to be, and thinking about that and my evolution to now where I'm, like, teaching people about it, um, I think my practice has always been grounded in Self, uh, self trust. 

Maria: I was going to say self confidence, but I think self trust is the word that I want to use. And I, I say that knowing that that can be really difficult. Um, but it's self confidence. It's like empathy. It's a muscle. You got to practice it. And you know, your intuition, the more you practice it, the more comfortable you are using it. 

Maria: And I'm at a point in my life where I can say my intuition is pretty top notch. I'm taking care of my energy. I You know, have my relationship with the cards, but the cards don't define me or how my day's gonna go. Um, it's just information, just like rage. It's just information and it's up to me to decide what I want to do with it and That, I think, is the most empowering part about tarot, is that I am the most magical ingredient. 

Maria: You know, when I read tarot for another person, they are the most magical ingredient of the spell. Tarot doesn't work if there are no people involved. So, I... Always tried to instill that mentality with my clients. Um, and I'll be opening up readings again later this fall. I took a pause to write my book. Um, but I am always just like, what do you see on this card? 

Maria: You know, this little red dog may mean nothing to me, but if it reminds you of something in your childhood or something, that's information. And the fact that That information isn't written in your little white book of tarot card meanings does not discount its worth at all because you are the interpreter. 

Maria: The interpretation is the art and you are the artist and you are the art itself. Um, all at the same time. I know that's a lot, but I'm just really into feeling into your personal power and being able to look at the cards as As guides, and you can take what information resonates with you and you can leave the rest. 

Maria: Tarot isn't, you know, and Tarot isn't the end or the beginning of the world. You know, you take what you resonate to leave the rest and you make do with the information you have. And I hope that at least from my, for my clients that they take that information and Do whatever work it is they need to do on themselves or their interpersonal relationships or their communities and in ways that ripple beyond what, um, one person can really. 

Maria: Ever recognize or realize in their whole life like I'm sure that I will never know the end result of my kind words to a cashier or something but like knowing that I'm doing things that ripple Outwardly also give us, um, like, it gives us a sense of power, but it also gives us a sense of responsibility. 

Maria: And I don't think that we talk about responsibility and tarot very often, but, um, it's, it's something to consider because, yes, you can have the best tarot reading in the world, but if you do nothing with it. Then it's, you know, it was just a fun experience. You have the responsibility to take that information and do what you want with it. 

Maria: And if the information in front of you is like a spread and you're like, I don't like any of these cards. They don't mean anything to me. I don't know how to read tarot. That's. Information in itself, you know, and I feel like I keep coming back to this. Like it's just information, but it really is just information. 

Maria: And I hope that my practice inspires people to, um, resonate, find themselves more in the cards rather than seeing them as, um, abstract figures, seeing themselves and the people in their lives or their worlds, et cetera. Um, yeah. Yeah, tarot for me is, it comes down to personal power and responsibility and I think that's magical. 

Amy: So like, in addition to responsibility, what else do you think of as like the ethics of tarot? 

Maria: I, do you mean just like tarot in general or tarot reading? I want 

Amy: you to interpret the question however the universe sees fit for you in this moment. 

Maria: You answer. So that question just like I would answer that question. How dare you? How dare you? 

Maria: Um, when I think about ethics and reading tarot, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is projection. 

Maria: Um, and that's going to be like, that's a natural response sometimes. Um, but when you are the reader and you are reading for someone else, I really think. The onus is on you to facilitate their, um, mental or emotional journey through the story that you are weaving with the cards, that you are weaving together with the cards. 

Maria: I don't think that it is Appropriate to give a top down reading where you are telling the person all about the cards and they have no input in their reading at all, because this is their reading. That's what matters. Um, also, I think that you shouldn't retail for people when you are. Not in a very, I don't know if you're in a, in a fragile, um, angry or bothered or distracted state. 

Maria: Um, I think that that leads to, um, less clarity, um, not just in your reading of the cards, but in your ability to be present and really understand what the, um, um, What the person is trying to communicate with you and what they're trying to see in the cards. Um, I definitely have seen, you know, plenty of tarot readers who I'm like, your life kind of seems like a tornado. 

Maria: I don't think you should be reading tarot right now. But, you know, we all got to live. So if that's what they need to do, that's what they need to do. But for me, I think it is. For me to live in my ethics as a tale reader, I have to show up to a reading feeling, you know, as energetically clean as I can be. 

Maria: Um, I will, you know, do the work to make sure that I'm in a good state for that. Um, and I won't over promise if I'm having a really Bad week, and I'm like, I don't think that I'm, I'm going to be, you know, pretty messed up or like, not messed up, but like, frazzled all week because I've got this huge deadline on Friday or something, or something just popped up. 

Maria: I hate to reschedule, but I don't think it's ethical for me to read for someone when I am totally distracted because that impacts my role to facilitate their. They're learning their realizations, et cetera. I want to be as present as I can be not just in Tarot, but. With anyone I am around. Um, and it just so happens to be I'm a terror reader and that, you know, eat those sort of applies as a terror reader. 

Maria: Um, I just I it's like responding to people responding to emails, right? It's like, you can be fast or you can be sincere and that's how I think of it. It's like, I'd rather be sincere, honest, um, clear, genuine, um, then just give you a reading because I, you know. Because that's what you're expecting and this is what, you know, you need to hear right now, blah, blah, blah, you know? 

Amy: Yeah, I do know. I feel like we're all working on this new model, this new paradigm of like, existing and surviving, but through an anti capitalist mode where it's not like, do this now, but like, do this when it's best. Not do this as quickly as possible. And we have an appointment, but like, when is the best time to do this? 

Amy: When am I going to give you the best work? It might not be right now. It might not be when we had that appointment. But you know, if you have a couple days when I'm in a better place, then we're both going to get more out of it. And again, I think that this is like an um, anti brainwashing that we're trying to do together, 

Maria: right? 

Maria: And I've learned so much about this and being public about, um, chronic illness and hearing about other people's stories and what they need to do to fill their cups and make sure that they are taking care of themselves. I'm doing a lot of that unlearning work, you know, where, you know, this is what is. 

Maria: Expected, and this is how I should show up and blah, blah, blah, blah, because, you know, we feel safety in structure, but that's not the way life goes sometimes, and I am committed to extending myself as much grace as I would to anybody else. 

Amy: And this extends beyond capitalism and into like, um, Puritanism, right? 

Amy: Like we're trying to unbrainwash all of these like ideas that have been pushed on us and pushed on us. So in the anti Puritan spirit, um, can you tell us about like what kink has to do with tarot in your purview? 
 

Maria: Oh, um, let's see. So I think, let's back up a little. I think of Tarot as a sort of analog for the environment. 

Maria: All the experiences that we can possibly have in life. Um, I think that there are as many perspectives of Tarot as there have been people who have been alive. And so when I'm thinking about, um, I believe that Tarot is, you know, is unique to each person. There's been as many perspectives of of Tarot possible as there have been people alive and My magic is about everyday magic and my everyday life and what's a part of my life. 

Maria: Uh, kink is a part of my life. And so I just thought, you know, I want it to, I want to learn more about these. different ways that people find and experience consensual pleasure. Um, but I want to explore it in a more embodied way. And while I may not particularly engage in all of these kinks that I'm sharing about, I do find some sort of pleasure in viewing and learning about kink through different, through the perspectives of different archetypes. 

Maria: And from that, my understanding of these archetypes is, you know, sexual or not, is More, uh, more complex. There's more texture to it. You know, I get to see the, you know, king of pentacles as you know, the sexy being and it's like, I don't think of these characters or archetypes or figures as being, you know, I never want to get to the point where I think of that. 

Maria: I just take them at face value. And so my life I am committed to always, always, always, um, expanding my, my understanding of what each card could embody in my life and perhaps in others. And I think because I have been so moved and so changed by that work, that I shouldn't keep it to myself. And so I was like, you know what? 

Maria: Like, I am, you know, totally down to like, talk more about tarot. Let's switch lanes. Let's talk about kink. And yes, you get to learn about kink, but you also get to learn about tarot at the same time. And my favorite thing about About any of the tarot stuff I put out there, like on Instagram or in my newsletter is I just get to have, you know, get to help people know the archetypes a little bit more, um, and I, I'm proud to be able to do that. 

Maria: And so, yes, kink. It's. I think I, it's just my jam right now and that's where I am in life and so that's where my tarot is. I 

Amy: love it. And also like where, where you are, you said you're going to be taking um appointments for readings in the fall because you've been working on this book. And full disclosure, listeners, the book doesn't come out till January, so I haven't read it yet, but like, being familiar with Maria's work, I feel like I can safely recommend it. 

Amy: Word unread. But let me just, let me just, um, read the title and then like, tell us about that process. So it's called, Tarot for the Hard Work, an archetypal journey to confront racism and inspire collective healing. Again, listeners, you can pre order it now. I already have, but it won't actually come out till the new year. 

Amy: So, Maria, tell us about this journey. 

Maria: Well, thank you so much for, for pre ordering that. Again, you're going to make me emotional on your show. Um, yes, thank you for that tarot for the hard work. Um, it began as a project that lived in my like handwritten notebook back in 2019. Um, I didn't know what to do with all of the, you know. 

Maria: The rising popularity and, um, presence of, um, vocal anti racist or vocal racism and like all of these news stories and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I was just feeling like, I don't know how I can help. And all of the anti racism resources resource groups in my area are geared toward white people. 

Maria: And I'm like, okay, I get it, but also I've got, I've got internalized racism just by nature of being, having lived in this country, the U. S. my entire life. And so I'm like, I've got work to do too, but it doesn't. Doesn't quite look like the syllabi for these groups that are around me. And so I was just like, okay, I want to, I want to be someone who does something and I don't know how to be that person, but I can wear the outfit and see how it feels and see if that, you know, if wearing it makes me feel more capable. 

Maria: And so I started to embody. Different, um, different archetypes of the major arcana in my anti racism work, and I ended up with this, like, journal of, you know, 22, 22 sections of just scribbles and scribbles of, um, ideas and things I wanted to do and to unlearn. 

Maria: I had all of that information with me. I eventually turned it into a blog, um, which gained some sort of like cult popularity, which was exciting for me, but also really scary. Um, it is. Scary to put myself out there in a world where there are still a lot of witches who are like, do not mix tarot and politics. 

Maria: It's evil, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, I don't want to hear this. You know, like, why are you saying that my literal 

Maria: existence, my life is politics. Um, but, um, anyway, more people. Resonated with it than than the number of, you know, complaints I got. And so I was excited about this. And then my friend, Cassandra snow, the author of querying the tarot and lessons from the Empress, um, they were like, Hey, have you ever thought about writing a book about this? 

Maria: And. Writing a book and having a published book was my number one life bucket list thing, number one, more than anything else. And I was like, sure, I would love to. And she connected me with someone and, um, the project went through, you know, ups and downs and now it's finally coming out. January the 8th. Um, it's a practical tarot workbook to, um, confront racism, inspire personal insight and prompt social change. 

Maria: I worked very hard on it. It includes over 60 essays, hundreds of activities, and 21 specialized activities for building your own anti racism toolkit that's customized to your life, your community, your relationships, and your, um, also your relationship to yourself. Um, and so. I just think that Tarot has been a really powerful guide for introspection and inner work, but what if we just took that, you know, took that lens and made it wider? 

Maria: Um, and so I, I, I write this book, I, I offer this book for people, whether you're a witch or not, um, to, who has that question that I had at the beginning was like, what do I even do? Um, it's, The exercises are all about everyday things you can do, things you can do in your workplace, things you can do in your covens, things you can do with your families, etc. 

Maria: And so it's a very, it's going through this workbook will likely be a very personal journey, but it's. It's my spell for the world that I hope ripples out in benevolent ways. And yeah, the book is the books for white people, the books for people of color. Um, it's All about, it's all about action. But no, I, I wanna take that back. 

Maria: It's not just about action, it's about learning and unlearning and action and reflection, et cetera. And I also think beyond the anti-racism part of it, I just reread it and I think it's a damn good book to learn tarot, . Like I, I, I, I do not like reading my own writing. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. But reading through it, I was like, Oh, damn. 

Maria: Okay. Like, this is like a lot of my tarot knowledge, like packed a lot of my knowledge of the major arcana packed into a book. And there are so many opportunities that I think I offer to, um, to help people develop their own personal relationships with the cards. Um, and yes, anti racism is the theme of this book, but Honestly, this book's for everyone. 

Maria: You don't have to be a tarot reader or even know anything about tarot to get something out of the book, because the archetypes are included, but they're also described, um, you don't have to be, uh, you know, super activist person to read this book either. It's for you. Like I said, anyone who's just been like, what the F can I do? 

Amy: That, that's the question that comes up so often, you know, and, and when we have these tools, even if it's just something to, you know, take our focus off of what I call the swarm of bees that lives in my head and sort of focus on something and like cultivate. I think you talk about a sense of self awareness and how self awareness can sort of like leech into, you know, your empathy. 

Amy: Um, I pulled some quotes from your Instagram from, um, Anti Racism with Tarot Revisited. Um, again, like this, I don't have the book yet, but I imagine there's like some overlap between these. these concepts. And I was hoping, like, I'm going to read some of these, and if you could, like, react or expand or tell me what you were thinking when you wrote these. 

Amy: And we can do them rapid fire if you like, you know, or you can talk and talk and talk. It's totally up to you. Okay, here's my first one. And I actually, I saw someone refer to you on Instagram as their favorite anti capitalist, which just was like, Oh, what a lovely compliment. 

Maria: Okay, sweetheart. Hello, whoever you are. 

Amy: So here's a quote. I have a few, so get comfortable. The revolution is ultimately anti capitalist. but asks us to do what we can to shift power dynamics in an effort parallel to the destruction of capitalist regimes. Our work requires the massive redistribution of wealth, and we must do our part by reconsidering where we spend our money. 

Maria: Yes. Um, you know, the fact of the matter is that I'm assuming most of us, most of us listeners live in a capitalist society and better worse, you know, I will just put it out there that it sucks. This system needs to come down, right? But what are we going to do to take care of people and make sure that they are taken care of? 

Maria: Um. And can live in life that they have the opportunity to choose to thrive. How can we, how can we better cultivate a more equitable world? And unfortunately, like I said, we live in capitalist society, thus capital is power. Um, and so. When I think about wealth redistribution, I think of power redistribution and shifting where and how we spend our money, um, has a lot of a lot of potential leverage in this fight toward or this journey. 

Maria: I don't, I don't want to always say it's a fight because sometimes there's joy and, you know, in, in activism and such. Um, but. Yeah, I think wealth distribution is going to be one of the more immediate ways that we can, um, help elevate oppressed people of all different kinds. And that's really where I was coming from with that, you know, like, yes, the system needs to come down, but let's be real, it's not coming down tomorrow. 

Maria: What are we going to do, um, as we work to dismantle the system, what are we going to do to, you know, make sure the people who are here get. You know, have equal access to resources and, um, and like I said, the ability to choose to thrive. 

Amy: Here's another quote from your Instagram. And this one, like, I read this and I was like, fuck. 

Amy: So tell me, tell me, tell me how to process this. We, we are responsible for taking care of each other. At the same time, we are not responsible for other people's feelings. 
 

Maria: Mm. You know what, I wrote that and I read it to myself over and over again, and I was like, I don't know if I like the feeling in my body right now. 

Amy: Yeah, yeah, it's like, it doesn't feel wrong, like an untruth, but it like is deeply uncomfortable and unsettling. 

Maria: Yeah. Um, and to be quite honest with you, a lot of the things I share, um, I mentioned in my book, like, hey, I don't have all the answers. I'm doing this work alongside of you. I'm undoing internalized racism and ableism and so on and so forth. 

Maria: Like, I am doing the work too. I'm just sharing what I've learned along the journey. And along the journey, I have learned that we Yeah. Yes, we are all interconnected, and we do have a responsibility to take care of each other. If there was no such thing as collaboration, um, humanity wouldn't have You know, survived, right? 

Maria: We would not have been able to be here today. If collaboration did not exist, if care did not exist, um, collective care, um, personal self care, I guess also, but like, um, I just think that care is such a huge reason why we. Are still here at the same time. 


Maria: I don't think that we are necessarily 

Maria: let's say this. I think that we are responsible for what happens as a result of our actions. But I think at the same time we ourselves are responsible for our own reactions and our feelings and what we do as a result of them. Um, and it's not like. The clear cut line, like sometimes you say something and maybe you made that person feel really shitty, um, but their feeling isn't your responsibility, your responsibility is to rectify what happened and, you know, do the work of, you know, making it better and asking for forgiveness and committing to never doing it again. 

Maria: How they feel about it. That's their responsibility. You cannot change somebody's feelings just by telling them to, you know, get over it or, you know, so on and so forth. I'm not responsible for your feelings. I'm responsible for my feelings, but I am responsible for what I do that affects your feelings, and I commit to taking responsibility for that and keeping that in my mind. 

Maria: It helps me live a more aligned and balanced life. And ethical life. I, I'm very, I'm a lot of things, but I'm very, very, very dedicated to living within my, uh, my ethical, uh, in, in, within my ethics. And maybe that makes me a little bit slow sometimes. Maybe that makes me a little bit. Too, too, too thoughtful or so on and so forth, but it's like a muscle. 

Maria: We practice it. And so I have found really that, like, there is so much value in letting go of like, somebody feels this way. And I want them to feel something different. It's like, no, that's not, that's not what you're supposed to do. Like, they will, they will handle their feelings. What you need to do is handle the results of what you did. 

Amy: Thank you for Pulling and braiding those threads for me. I feel more comfortable in my chair already. Okay, last one. Love and light can look like rage and destruction when directed at supremacy and oppression. 

Maria: Absolutely. I think, even now, we, you know, even in this landscape where we do have so many wonderful tarot readers and witches in general who are, you know, speaking up about the issues in our world. 

Maria: Like, we do have that, and I am so glad to see that, um, that it's become more acceptable to do that, but there is still this, like, Veil of love and light that in a lot of areas in a lot of witchy spiritual circles, it pervades, um, and I think, yes, love and light are lovely things. I want love. I want levity, but, 


Maria: Because I want those things, sometimes I'm going to have to fight for them. 

Maria: And my rage toward, you know, a structurally racist institution, that's not going to look like transformative dancing in a field wearing a tunic and long flowing hair and, you know, a tame wolf beside me, you know, like that's not what it's going to look like. It's going to look like yelling. It's, it might look like, you know, putting your physical body on the line. 

Maria: It might look like bringing up facts and stories that people don't want to hear, but need to need to be confronted with love and light. We're, we're all working toward that. But, but I don't think, I don't think spiritual bypassing is love and light. I think love and light is taking care of each other and allowing ourselves to, allowing ourselves and other people to grow. 

Maria: use that light to illuminate a more spacious and expansive path for themselves in which they can have autonomy and freedom and be able to chase and create their own love and life and to share it with light and to share it. That's not always going to look like taking the nice way. Um, that's not always going to look like, Going through the system, but do know that like, even though, you know, people like me might seem angry at the world and like, you know, you know, help out on, you know, changing it and this and that this is all stemming from love. 

Maria: I just want to see my people. 

Maria: I'm to see mutual aid. I want to see people having empathy for people and like I want these things. I love being on this planet. I'm so grateful to have this chance to be a human. Would I do it again? I don't know, but here I am. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm so grateful to be here. I know what it's like to Because I know what it's like to have been happy and free and spacious. 

Maria: I want that for everyone else and toward the people who are making that damn near impossible for many people. I'm not going to be a nice lady, you know, like I'm going to be direct. I'm going to be straightforward. If you want to have a conversation with me. We can have a conversation as long as you are respectful. 

Maria: And, you know, we, I can talk to people with different, different perspectives, but. I don't think that telling people because they're witches that they need to take the gentle route and, you know, pray the way, etc. That's not going to help if you look throughout history, and if you look at just even just going to the Wikipedia page and just being like list of the empires, you will see that it's taken, you know, uprisings for a lot of them to have fallen. 

Maria: And. Those are not necessarily people showing up to the courthouse, you know, singing from their, you know, hymnals or something, you know, like that can look like so many different things. It takes so many roads. Liberation requires so many roads and so many perspectives and so many, um, bursts of effort that telling Everyone else to play it safe. 

Maria: Go by the rules. Be be the always take the quote unquote high road. And besides, who's defining what the high road is right. Um, but, you know, like, sometimes my love and light show up. As rage and the will to destroy what is preventing other people from experiencing that in their lives. 

Amy: Listeners, I'm just sitting here like getting a sore neck from deep nods and fist pumping in the air. 

Amy: Let's take a question from the coven. 

Heather: I am so happy to ask you a question. First, thank you for your Instagram. It inspires me to be a better person, um, a better witch and to like really sink my teeth into how authentically be challenged and grow and I need more in my life of that. And so you like the way for me. 

Heather: So thank you. Um, thank you. Thank you. I do have a real question too, , so you read me too and. Like what card has changed for you? You know, like we have these relationships with cards and some light up right away and we are attracted to them and then others kind of go to the side. And as you read more and more for me, at least I see I had my relationship changes to some cards. 

Heather: Is there any card or cards right now that speak to you in a different way or that really light you up? 

Maria: Yeah. Most recently, I think my relationship to the emperor has shifted. Um, the other week I had this lovely day where I got to talk with my mother and then I talked with my brother and did some other things that felt really grounding and foundational. 

Maria: And. The card I ended up pulling that day was the emperor, and it made me really rethink whose rules of, like, foundation am I Am I using because that talk of my mother connected me to like it grounded me to my foundation of love and familial support and that that's kind of a launch pad from which I go out and act into the world. 

Maria: I. I'll just tell you now, my, my big three are Leo Sun, Scorpio Moon, and Taurus Rising, so I have a lot of fixed energy, and so where I see a lot of other femme witches kind of turn away from the Emperor, I've always kind of leaned into the Emperor, because I like structure, I like structure. You know, expecting things, et cetera, et cetera. 

Maria: But those conversations I had and considering them in the context of what is foundational for me, made me realize that I've kind of been saying that my foundation is my to-do list, um, like that's the foundation for my day, and that's what, you know, pushes me to do anything in the world. And I just, like when I pulled the emperor, I was like, Oh, I haven't even written my to do list today, but I do feel like a sturdy foundation beneath my feet. 

Maria: I feel connected to the Earth's core. I feel connected to mortality and so on and so forth. And now I'm in a phase of re examining my relationship to the Emperor. I think, I'm not trying to plug my book again, but I think I give a really generous perspective of the emperor in my book, um, which clearly I need to reread. 

Maria: Um, but yeah, I, I think instead of the emperor being something to, to fear for its rigidity, you get to, it's an opportunity for you to remember that you are also The like builder here. You are a construction worker and you get to build that foundation however you want. And what makes you feel safe? What makes you feel secure? 

Maria: What makes you able? And one thing I wish more people talk about the emperor for about is. What makes you able to hold space for other people? Like those structures don't just exist to exist. They exist so we can coexist and live our lives in this shared world of ours. And how can I have a sturdy foundation enough where I feel safe enough to go out into the world? 

Maria: And create space for other people create. Maybe they're not like boxes is like the structure is just because the emperor is the four doesn't mean the structure has to be a rectangle or a square. You know, it can be very amorphous. But as long as you feel safe and you feel sturdy. I think you're more equipped to hold space for other people and, and honestly, more able to hold space for yourself. 

Maria: And in that space, you have a container where you can develop, um, where you can cultivate, um, further cultivate the gifts of the Empress, um, in, in a way that In a way that feels 

Maria: gosh, I don't know. I'm just going through so many thoughts right now. Um, but like thinking of the emperor as not just what makes my life feel like it's in order, but what makes my life feel so sturdy, safe, grounded, and capable of bringing people into my little structure and holding space for them. And like, how do I make sure that those walls are Those walls, those boundaries are, um, are strong, but also flexible and be able to be permeated when they need to be permeated. 

Maria: Um, I'm just, I'm just moving away from thinking of the emperor as a box and more like, uh, I don't know. I keep thinking of like a stretchy Play Doh circle cloud looking thing on the table. Like, that's, that's my structure. Um, yeah. So I love the emperor. I think that I think because that archetype has been so pushed into a masculine, um, perspective. 

Maria: Um, I don't think we think about the emperor as a potentially soft, you Um, archetype and I think absolutely the emperor can be a soft archetype. The emperor can be my family. You know, 

Heather: I cannot wait to read your book. 

Amy: Same, hard, same. I mean, Maria, you said, Oh, I'm not trying to plug my book again. I am. So, Tarot for the Hard Work, An Archetypal Journey to Confront Racism and Inspire Collective Healing by Maria Minnis. 

Amy: It's available for pre order right now, um, but it won't be in your mailbox until the new year, so order it now, and this, I do this all the time, where I pre order a book like months in advance, and then I get like a surprise gift that I bought for myself that I had forgotten about, so. Do it! Do it! By the time this comes out, the sort of, like, Yuletide gift extravaganza, and let's be anti capitalist about that too, and not go over the top and be ridiculous, but when the sheen of that has worn off, you may have one more gift coming if you pre order. 

Maria: Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. podcast. podcast when you added me on Instagram, I was like, 

Maria: and now I'm sitting here talking to you. So thank you for the space and thank you for the opportunity to reflect and to share some sort of digital connection with your listeners. Um, many of whom are some of whom I know, and we just. Gosh, about this podcast. Um, Yeah. It's very loved.

Amy: I think it's so fun that we all are sort of wowed by each other. 

Amy: And we all are like, Oh, you know, Maria's so much cooler than me. And you're like, Whoa, I can't believe Amy's following. You know, we all have this like, Excitement and reverence and irreverence that we, that we are all playing with together. Um, I want to end by saying you called yourself happy and free and spacious and that just fucking emanates from you and I want it for all of us. 

Amy: So thank you again so much for being here with me and for being, period. 

Maria: Thank you. And like. Wise. Thank you so much. I've, I, I, I cannot thank you enough. 

Amy: And blessed fucking be!
Maria: Blessed be! 



Amy: If you want to support the Missing Witches Project, find out how at missingwitches. com 
Amy: Join us this Saturday, October 14th, for a virtual communal spellcasting, Witch and Stitch, book launch. Find all the details on our website, and if you want to support the Missing Witches Project, find out how. at www. missingwitches. com. 
Amy: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Missing Witches podcast. My name is Amy and I'm so pleased and delighted and filled with warmth to finally be sitting face to face through a computer but face to face with Maria Minnis aka Feminist. Maria is a Black, Jewish, queer, and autistic Tarot worker of 20 plus years. 
Amy: Who teaches about blending spirituality with everyday magic, liberation work, and sensuality. She believes that the end result of all magic should be to cultivate a more equitable and empathetic planet. I think of you. Maria, as the Audre Lorde of tarot. Like, age, race, sex, class, intersectionality, but all through this lens of tarot. 
Amy: But before we get into all that, 
Maria: What a compliment! Sorry, I the listeners, I'm just sitting here with my mouth totally ajar. And what a, what a nice thing to say. Thank you. Yeah. 
Amy: I mean, it's, it's all there, right? But then you've like, you've put on these glasses of tarot through which you, you view all of these, um, some might say disparate, but in your work, very blended ideas. 
Amy: So that part of that was the, your, like from your bio, from your website. So what do you want our listeners to know extra about you or like, who are you today? Why are you today? 
Maria: Yeah, that's a really great question. Um, so yes, my magic is Centered around every day practice. I love my altar, but I think my most magical spells happened beyond the altar. 
Maria: And I think that's the case in a highly interconnected universe. Like, your magic is never just about yourself, because as you evolve and your magic evolves, the way you present yourself in the world evolves as well. And that ripples outward and so on and so forth. And so I'm just thinking like. Why? Why wouldn't my magic be more than just about myself? 
Maria: Um, if we, let's say, hypothetically, we did everything to reach a point of self satisfaction, and then we die. It's like, well, what, what was our witchcraft for in the first place? Um, and so, yeah, so I'm just teaching folks how to blend magic, um, and their spiritual side with everyday magic. Life and realize that the two don't have to be, um, completely separate. 
Maria: Um, there's a lot of opportunity for them to be blended together. And I think that there is a lot of opportunity for both personal and collective growth when we consider integrating all of those things into how we show up every day. 
Amy: Yes. And, and whether or not we show up every day, 
Maria: right? Ooh, you're right. 
Amy: Yeah. You said you love your Whoa. Yeah. You said you love your altar. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about like the, the physical manifestation of, of what that space looks like? 
Maria: Yeah. So my altar has always Just looked like the living situation I've been in when I got back into working with altars, like, I don't know, five, seven, however many years ago. 
Maria: Um, I made this really fancy altar with like, you know, I had my own space. And so I had all of the like crystals and the flowers and I would change it with every season and such. When I moved into a one bedroom, a tiny one bedroom with my, um, ex partner, um, my altar was a shoebox. Um, and some of the most powerful spells have come and have been inspired from that place. 
Maria: Currently, my altar is A tiny table beside my desk and instead of being filled with, um, so many like, uh, symbolic things. Well, nevermind. Let me take this back. Yes, there are things like crystals and tarot cards and such on it, but there are also things that make me feel. Connected to the divine within, including a ceramic cat that my friend Hillary, my friend, I say friend, but she's like my sister, that she has had with her since childhood. 
Maria: She gave it to me last summer and it's the pinnacle of my altar because my love for her is. Boundless and infinite, and it just reminds me of the spaciousness there is in this world. And every time I try to box myself in or feel like I've made choices that have put me into a corner, I can Glance over there and remember, one, I'm loved, two, my life is spacious, three, I can take up space, and four, my inner child deserves to dance. 
Amy: Well. 

Maria: I, I, I, you said I could ramble, you know, 
Amy: The big ending there, the, my inner child deserves to dance, like, please expand. 
Maria: Right. So, I am working through a lot of CPTSD stuff now. Um, some of your listeners may know that I I tend to share a lot about my personal life because I think it's a reflection of the magic I do, and it also helps me feel Like, I can connect with people in a more profound way than just being like, hey, it's Monday. 
Maria: This is the moon sign. This is how you're supposed to feel. I'm just like, this is how the hierophant is showing up in my life and I don't like it. Um, and so, um, going back to your question, um, Inner child. I've been working with a lot of this trauma work, and I last year exited a almost decade long abusive relationship, uh, physically, financially, emotionally, et cetera. 
Maria: Um, and I. And now at the point where I am brave enough to face a lot of the issues that arose from that, and I am finding that a lot of the issues did not, were not just born in that relationship, they stem from childhood. And now I feel like I am accessing this sort of Rage. Like, I look at Children in my neighborhood and I'm like, you know, like, I couldn't imagine them going through what I've gone through and like, it makes me angry. 
Maria: And so I was talking to my therapist and she was like, anger isn't one of your emotions. Like your typical emotions. Don't worry. I have plenty of other vices. It's just very hard to get me angry. Um, but she told me, how can you use that rage productively and so I've just been tapping into the things that make me feel like a kid again, whether that's wearing childlike clothes or, you know, just throwing it. 
Maria: Reckless, abandoned to the wind and dancing in the middle of street or whatever, um, just noticing in my body where I am telling myself no, noticing in my mind where I am telling myself no, and noticing how that feels in my body and how do I want to use. that knowledge to heal. And by heal, I don't mean that life has to be all about healing and growing and evolution, but like, how can I heal toward more pleasure? 
Amy: On the subject of pleasure, I feel like, um, we have to get into Kinky tarot, but I, I first, um, I have to say like this question of how can you use that rage productively? I mean, I feel like so many of us are just like boiling constantly and it can be difficult to use. find ways to, to focus rage and do some shit productive with it. 
Amy: So like, what's like, what's like your bumper sticker of advice for our listening coven on like, how to focus and use your rage productively? 
Maria: Hmm. I think I'm still figuring it out. I think that it requires a lot of empathy toward yourself. And I think while that can be difficult to cultivate, practicing it with other people makes it a lot easier to have empathy on yourself. 
Maria: And when you realize, you know, I am angry. That's not a bad thing. That doesn't mean I'm an evil person. I just have this energy and I don't know what to do with it. Take that as an invitation to explore what to do with it. That's not necessarily a bumper sticker, but using your feelings as like, kind of, uh, guideposts and instead of taking it at, um, at face value, I'd like to think about, um, I'd like to talk about in my teaching about holographic thinking, and that is all about taking one thing, let's say anger, and then viewing it from all sorts of different angles, levels of light, and noticing the shadows and, you know, being willing to, you know, walk all around that thing, see, you know, all of its sides, all of its facets, and be like, okay, now I can craft a more Comprehensive, um, perspective of this thing that if I were to have just said, I'm angry, what do I do about it? 
Maria: So I guess my my bumper sticker would be like, study your anger. Like, don't be afraid of it. I was terribly afraid of my anger because Like I said, I don't really get angry and I hate being angry. I, you know, like if other people are mad, I'm like, I'm just going to be mad over there because I'm good. But, um, it's, it's a new thing that I'm working through and I just invite anyone who feels like they are bottling up rage to... 
Maria: Honestly, befriend it and not push it away because it doesn't have to come out in, um, physically or verbally violent ways. It's just information. And that's something you can run with. 
Amy: And an invitation. I love this. Like, this is an invitation to explore. 
Maria: Yes, that's the word 
Amy: invitation. Yeah, when my rage boils up, I will reframe it as an invitation to explore. 
Amy: Thank you. Okay, so back to tarot. Again, we're going to talk about sex and tarot. We're going to talk about anti racism and tarot. But first, I want to know, like, how did you um, Um, maybe two parter. How or when did you, like, start thinking of yourself as a witch who does witchcraft? And how and when did you discover and or start working with tarot, the cards themselves? 
Amy: Yeah, 
Maria: I when did I consider myself to be a witch? You know what you that's a great question because it's prompting this like profound moment that I'm like feeling all over my body right now and all within my body, which is I look back. In my life, and I'm like, I think I've always been a witch. You know, I was a pretty weird, creepy child. 
Maria: Um, and when someone gave me a used tarot deck, I didn't have like the little white book or anything. And so, yeah, Me being me is like, okay, I'll assign my own meanings to these things. And so my practice comes from a very, um, I encourage people to do what I did, which is develop a very personal relationships with personal relationships with the cards, the archetype, the artistry. 
Maria: And later, I, you know, learned the more collectively shared meanings of each card, and that has been, I don't want to discount the value of collective energy and collective, um, knowledge because we all have been crafting, um, and evolving this process. Thank you. practice, this tarot thing, for as long as it's existed. 
Maria: Um, and so I don't want to discount all of the work that has been put into it. But for me, tarot has always been a tool for me to 
Maria: stop and sit with the weird I don't know the weird like motley crew of characters that sit before me and like string together a story. I am a writer. And when I read tarot, I feel like I am writing and reading and living the story at the same time. And so Considering who I was, this little, like, 11 or 12 year old with this tarot deck that, you know, meant nothing more to me than what I had defined it to be, and thinking about that and my evolution to now where I'm, like, teaching people about it, um, I think my practice has always been grounded in Self, uh, self trust. 
Maria: I was going to say self confidence, but I think self trust is the word that I want to use. And I, I say that knowing that that can be really difficult. Um, but it's self confidence. It's like empathy. It's a muscle. You got to practice it. And you know, your intuition, the more you practice it, the more comfortable you are using it. 
Maria: And I'm at a point in my life where I can say my intuition is pretty top notch. I'm taking care of my energy. I You know, have my relationship with the cards, but the cards don't define me or how my day's gonna go. Um, it's just information, just like rage. It's just information and it's up to me to decide what I want to do with it and That, I think, is the most empowering part about tarot, is that I am the most magical ingredient. 
Maria: You know, when I read tarot for another person, they are the most magical ingredient of the spell. Tarot doesn't work if there are no people involved. So, I... Always tried to instill that mentality with my clients. Um, and I'll be opening up readings again later this fall. I took a pause to write my book. Um, but I am always just like, what do you see on this card? 
Maria: You know, this little red dog may mean nothing to me, but if it reminds you of something in your childhood or something, that's information. And the fact that That information isn't written in your little white book of tarot card meanings does not discount its worth at all because you are the interpreter. 
Maria: The interpretation is the art and you are the artist and you are the art itself. Um, all at the same time. I know that's a lot, but I'm just really into feeling into your personal power and being able to look at the cards as As guides, and you can take what information resonates with you and you can leave the rest. 
Maria: Tarot isn't, you know, and Tarot isn't the end or the beginning of the world. You know, you take what you resonate to leave the rest and you make do with the information you have. And I hope that at least from my, for my clients that they take that information and Do whatever work it is they need to do on themselves or their interpersonal relationships or their communities and in ways that ripple beyond what, um, one person can really. 
Maria: Ever recognize or realize in their whole life like I'm sure that I will never know the end result of my kind words to a cashier or something but like knowing that I'm doing things that ripple Outwardly also give us, um, like, it gives us a sense of power, but it also gives us a sense of responsibility. 
Maria: And I don't think that we talk about responsibility and tarot very often, but, um, it's, it's something to consider because, yes, you can have the best tarot reading in the world, but if you do nothing with it. Then it's, you know, it was just a fun experience. You have the responsibility to take that information and do what you want with it. 
Maria: And if the information in front of you is like a spread and you're like, I don't like any of these cards. They don't mean anything to me. I don't know how to read tarot. That's. Information in itself, you know, and I feel like I keep coming back to this. Like it's just information, but it really is just information. 
Maria: And I hope that my practice inspires people to, um, resonate, find themselves more in the cards rather than seeing them as, um, abstract figures, seeing themselves and the people in their lives or their worlds, et cetera. Um, yeah. Yeah, tarot for me is, it comes down to personal power and responsibility and I think that's magical. 
Amy: So like, in addition to responsibility, what else do you think of as like the ethics of tarot? 
Maria: I, do you mean just like tarot in general or tarot reading? I want 
Amy: you to interpret the question however the universe sees fit for you in this moment. 
Maria: You answer. So that question just like I would answer that question. How dare you? How dare you? 
Maria: Um, when I think about ethics and reading tarot, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is projection. 
Maria: Um, and that's going to be like, that's a natural response sometimes. Um, but when you are the reader and you are reading for someone else, I really think. The onus is on you to facilitate their, um, mental or emotional journey through the story that you are weaving with the cards, that you are weaving together with the cards. 
Maria: I don't think that it is Appropriate to give a top down reading where you are telling the person all about the cards and they have no input in their reading at all, because this is their reading. That's what matters. Um, also, I think that you shouldn't retail for people when you are. Not in a very, I don't know if you're in a, in a fragile, um, angry or bothered or distracted state. 
Maria: Um, I think that that leads to, um, less clarity, um, not just in your reading of the cards, but in your ability to be present and really understand what the, um, um, What the person is trying to communicate with you and what they're trying to see in the cards. Um, I definitely have seen, you know, plenty of tarot readers who I'm like, your life kind of seems like a tornado. 
Maria: I don't think you should be reading tarot right now. But, you know, we all got to live. So if that's what they need to do, that's what they need to do. But for me, I think it is. For me to live in my ethics as a tale reader, I have to show up to a reading feeling, you know, as energetically clean as I can be. 
Maria: Um, I will, you know, do the work to make sure that I'm in a good state for that. Um, and I won't over promise if I'm having a really Bad week, and I'm like, I don't think that I'm, I'm going to be, you know, pretty messed up or like, not messed up, but like, frazzled all week because I've got this huge deadline on Friday or something, or something just popped up. 
Maria: I hate to reschedule, but I don't think it's ethical for me to read for someone when I am totally distracted because that impacts my role to facilitate their. They're learning their realizations, et cetera. I want to be as present as I can be not just in Tarot, but. With anyone I am around. Um, and it just so happens to be I'm a terror reader and that, you know, eat those sort of applies as a terror reader. 
Maria: Um, I just I it's like responding to people responding to emails, right? It's like, you can be fast or you can be sincere and that's how I think of it. It's like, I'd rather be sincere, honest, um, clear, genuine, um, then just give you a reading because I, you know. Because that's what you're expecting and this is what, you know, you need to hear right now, blah, blah, blah, you know? 
Amy: Yeah, I do know. I feel like we're all working on this new model, this new paradigm of like, existing and surviving, but through an anti capitalist mode where it's not like, do this now, but like, do this when it's best. Not do this as quickly as possible. And we have an appointment, but like, when is the best time to do this? 
Amy: When am I going to give you the best work? It might not be right now. It might not be when we had that appointment. But you know, if you have a couple days when I'm in a better place, then we're both going to get more out of it. And again, I think that this is like an um, anti brainwashing that we're trying to do together, 
Maria: right? 
Maria: And I've learned so much about this and being public about, um, chronic illness and hearing about other people's stories and what they need to do to fill their cups and make sure that they are taking care of themselves. I'm doing a lot of that unlearning work, you know, where, you know, this is what is. 
Maria: Expected, and this is how I should show up and blah, blah, blah, blah, because, you know, we feel safety in structure, but that's not the way life goes sometimes, and I am committed to extending myself as much grace as I would to anybody else. 
Amy: And this extends beyond capitalism and into like, um, Puritanism, right? 
Amy: Like we're trying to unbrainwash all of these like ideas that have been pushed on us and pushed on us. So in the anti Puritan spirit, um, can you tell us about like what kink has to do with tarot in your purview? 
 
Maria: Oh, um, let's see. So I think, let's back up a little. I think of Tarot as a sort of analog for the environment. 
Maria: All the experiences that we can possibly have in life. Um, I think that there are as many perspectives of Tarot as there have been people who have been alive. And so when I'm thinking about, um, I believe that Tarot is, you know, is unique to each person. There's been as many perspectives of of Tarot possible as there have been people alive and My magic is about everyday magic and my everyday life and what's a part of my life. 
Maria: Uh, kink is a part of my life. And so I just thought, you know, I want it to, I want to learn more about these. different ways that people find and experience consensual pleasure. Um, but I want to explore it in a more embodied way. And while I may not particularly engage in all of these kinks that I'm sharing about, I do find some sort of pleasure in viewing and learning about kink through different, through the perspectives of different archetypes. 
Maria: And from that, my understanding of these archetypes is, you know, sexual or not, is More, uh, more complex. There's more texture to it. You know, I get to see the, you know, king of pentacles as you know, the sexy being and it's like, I don't think of these characters or archetypes or figures as being, you know, I never want to get to the point where I think of that. 
Maria: I just take them at face value. And so my life I am committed to always, always, always, um, expanding my, my understanding of what each card could embody in my life and perhaps in others. And I think because I have been so moved and so changed by that work, that I shouldn't keep it to myself. And so I was like, you know what? 
Maria: Like, I am, you know, totally down to like, talk more about tarot. Let's switch lanes. Let's talk about kink. And yes, you get to learn about kink, but you also get to learn about tarot at the same time. And my favorite thing about About any of the tarot stuff I put out there, like on Instagram or in my newsletter is I just get to have, you know, get to help people know the archetypes a little bit more, um, and I, I'm proud to be able to do that. 
Maria: And so, yes, kink. It's. I think I, it's just my jam right now and that's where I am in life and so that's where my tarot is. I 
Amy: love it. And also like where, where you are, you said you're going to be taking um appointments for readings in the fall because you've been working on this book. And full disclosure, listeners, the book doesn't come out till January, so I haven't read it yet, but like, being familiar with Maria's work, I feel like I can safely recommend it. 
Amy: Word unread. But let me just, let me just, um, read the title and then like, tell us about that process. So it's called, Tarot for the Hard Work, an archetypal journey to confront racism and inspire collective healing. Again, listeners, you can pre order it now. I already have, but it won't actually come out till the new year. 
Amy: So, Maria, tell us about this journey. 
Maria: Well, thank you so much for, for pre ordering that. Again, you're going to make me emotional on your show. Um, yes, thank you for that tarot for the hard work. Um, it began as a project that lived in my like handwritten notebook back in 2019. Um, I didn't know what to do with all of the, you know. 
Maria: The rising popularity and, um, presence of, um, vocal anti racist or vocal racism and like all of these news stories and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I was just feeling like, I don't know how I can help. And all of the anti racism resources resource groups in my area are geared toward white people. 
Maria: And I'm like, okay, I get it, but also I've got, I've got internalized racism just by nature of being, having lived in this country, the U. S. my entire life. And so I'm like, I've got work to do too, but it doesn't. Doesn't quite look like the syllabi for these groups that are around me. And so I was just like, okay, I want to, I want to be someone who does something and I don't know how to be that person, but I can wear the outfit and see how it feels and see if that, you know, if wearing it makes me feel more capable. 
Maria: And so I started to embody. Different, um, different archetypes of the major arcana in my anti racism work, and I ended up with this, like, journal of, you know, 22, 22 sections of just scribbles and scribbles of, um, ideas and things I wanted to do and to unlearn. 
Maria: I had all of that information with me. I eventually turned it into a blog, um, which gained some sort of like cult popularity, which was exciting for me, but also really scary. Um, it is. Scary to put myself out there in a world where there are still a lot of witches who are like, do not mix tarot and politics. 
Maria: It's evil, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, I don't want to hear this. You know, like, why are you saying that my literal 
Maria: existence, my life is politics. Um, but, um, anyway, more people. Resonated with it than than the number of, you know, complaints I got. And so I was excited about this. And then my friend, Cassandra snow, the author of querying the tarot and lessons from the Empress, um, they were like, Hey, have you ever thought about writing a book about this? 
Maria: And. Writing a book and having a published book was my number one life bucket list thing, number one, more than anything else. And I was like, sure, I would love to. And she connected me with someone and, um, the project went through, you know, ups and downs and now it's finally coming out. January the 8th. Um, it's a practical tarot workbook to, um, confront racism, inspire personal insight and prompt social change. 
Maria: I worked very hard on it. It includes over 60 essays, hundreds of activities, and 21 specialized activities for building your own anti racism toolkit that's customized to your life, your community, your relationships, and your, um, also your relationship to yourself. Um, and so. I just think that Tarot has been a really powerful guide for introspection and inner work, but what if we just took that, you know, took that lens and made it wider? 
Maria: Um, and so I, I, I write this book, I, I offer this book for people, whether you're a witch or not, um, to, who has that question that I had at the beginning was like, what do I even do? Um, it's, The exercises are all about everyday things you can do, things you can do in your workplace, things you can do in your covens, things you can do with your families, etc. 
Maria: And so it's a very, it's going through this workbook will likely be a very personal journey, but it's. It's my spell for the world that I hope ripples out in benevolent ways. And yeah, the book is the books for white people, the books for people of color. Um, it's All about, it's all about action. But no, I, I wanna take that back. 
Maria: It's not just about action, it's about learning and unlearning and action and reflection, et cetera. And I also think beyond the anti-racism part of it, I just reread it and I think it's a damn good book to learn tarot, . Like I, I, I, I do not like reading my own writing. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. But reading through it, I was like, Oh, damn. 
Maria: Okay. Like, this is like a lot of my tarot knowledge, like packed a lot of my knowledge of the major arcana packed into a book. And there are so many opportunities that I think I offer to, um, to help people develop their own personal relationships with the cards. Um, and yes, anti racism is the theme of this book, but Honestly, this book's for everyone. 
Maria: You don't have to be a tarot reader or even know anything about tarot to get something out of the book, because the archetypes are included, but they're also described, um, you don't have to be, uh, you know, super activist person to read this book either. It's for you. Like I said, anyone who's just been like, what the F can I do? 
Amy: That, that's the question that comes up so often, you know, and, and when we have these tools, even if it's just something to, you know, take our focus off of what I call the swarm of bees that lives in my head and sort of focus on something and like cultivate. I think you talk about a sense of self awareness and how self awareness can sort of like leech into, you know, your empathy. 
Amy: Um, I pulled some quotes from your Instagram from, um, Anti Racism with Tarot Revisited. Um, again, like this, I don't have the book yet, but I imagine there's like some overlap between these. these concepts. And I was hoping, like, I'm going to read some of these, and if you could, like, react or expand or tell me what you were thinking when you wrote these. 
Amy: And we can do them rapid fire if you like, you know, or you can talk and talk and talk. It's totally up to you. Okay, here's my first one. And I actually, I saw someone refer to you on Instagram as their favorite anti capitalist, which just was like, Oh, what a lovely compliment. 
Maria: Okay, sweetheart. Hello, whoever you are. 
Amy: So here's a quote. I have a few, so get comfortable. The revolution is ultimately anti capitalist. but asks us to do what we can to shift power dynamics in an effort parallel to the destruction of capitalist regimes. Our work requires the massive redistribution of wealth, and we must do our part by reconsidering where we spend our money. 
Maria: Yes. Um, you know, the fact of the matter is that I'm assuming most of us, most of us listeners live in a capitalist society and better worse, you know, I will just put it out there that it sucks. This system needs to come down, right? But what are we going to do to take care of people and make sure that they are taken care of? 
Maria: Um. And can live in life that they have the opportunity to choose to thrive. How can we, how can we better cultivate a more equitable world? And unfortunately, like I said, we live in capitalist society, thus capital is power. Um, and so. When I think about wealth redistribution, I think of power redistribution and shifting where and how we spend our money, um, has a lot of a lot of potential leverage in this fight toward or this journey. 
Maria: I don't, I don't want to always say it's a fight because sometimes there's joy and, you know, in, in activism and such. Um, but. Yeah, I think wealth distribution is going to be one of the more immediate ways that we can, um, help elevate oppressed people of all different kinds. And that's really where I was coming from with that, you know, like, yes, the system needs to come down, but let's be real, it's not coming down tomorrow. 
Maria: What are we going to do, um, as we work to dismantle the system, what are we going to do to, you know, make sure the people who are here get. You know, have equal access to resources and, um, and like I said, the ability to choose to thrive. 
Amy: Here's another quote from your Instagram. And this one, like, I read this and I was like, fuck. 
Amy: So tell me, tell me, tell me how to process this. We, we are responsible for taking care of each other. At the same time, we are not responsible for other people's feelings. 
 
Maria: Mm. You know what, I wrote that and I read it to myself over and over again, and I was like, I don't know if I like the feeling in my body right now. 
Amy: Yeah, yeah, it's like, it doesn't feel wrong, like an untruth, but it like is deeply uncomfortable and unsettling. 
Maria: Yeah. Um, and to be quite honest with you, a lot of the things I share, um, I mentioned in my book, like, hey, I don't have all the answers. I'm doing this work alongside of you. I'm undoing internalized racism and ableism and so on and so forth. 
Maria: Like, I am doing the work too. I'm just sharing what I've learned along the journey. And along the journey, I have learned that we Yeah. Yes, we are all interconnected, and we do have a responsibility to take care of each other. If there was no such thing as collaboration, um, humanity wouldn't have You know, survived, right? 
Maria: We would not have been able to be here today. If collaboration did not exist, if care did not exist, um, collective care, um, personal self care, I guess also, but like, um, I just think that care is such a huge reason why we. Are still here at the same time. 

Maria: I don't think that we are necessarily 
Maria: let's say this. I think that we are responsible for what happens as a result of our actions. But I think at the same time we ourselves are responsible for our own reactions and our feelings and what we do as a result of them. Um, and it's not like. The clear cut line, like sometimes you say something and maybe you made that person feel really shitty, um, but their feeling isn't your responsibility, your responsibility is to rectify what happened and, you know, do the work of, you know, making it better and asking for forgiveness and committing to never doing it again. 
Maria: How they feel about it. That's their responsibility. You cannot change somebody's feelings just by telling them to, you know, get over it or, you know, so on and so forth. I'm not responsible for your feelings. I'm responsible for my feelings, but I am responsible for what I do that affects your feelings, and I commit to taking responsibility for that and keeping that in my mind. 
Maria: It helps me live a more aligned and balanced life. And ethical life. I, I'm very, I'm a lot of things, but I'm very, very, very dedicated to living within my, uh, my ethical, uh, in, in, within my ethics. And maybe that makes me a little bit slow sometimes. Maybe that makes me a little bit. Too, too, too thoughtful or so on and so forth, but it's like a muscle. 
Maria: We practice it. And so I have found really that, like, there is so much value in letting go of like, somebody feels this way. And I want them to feel something different. It's like, no, that's not, that's not what you're supposed to do. Like, they will, they will handle their feelings. What you need to do is handle the results of what you did. 
Amy: Thank you for Pulling and braiding those threads for me. I feel more comfortable in my chair already. Okay, last one. Love and light can look like rage and destruction when directed at supremacy and oppression. 
Maria: Absolutely. I think, even now, we, you know, even in this landscape where we do have so many wonderful tarot readers and witches in general who are, you know, speaking up about the issues in our world. 
Maria: Like, we do have that, and I am so glad to see that, um, that it's become more acceptable to do that, but there is still this, like, Veil of love and light that in a lot of areas in a lot of witchy spiritual circles, it pervades, um, and I think, yes, love and light are lovely things. I want love. I want levity, but, 

Maria: Because I want those things, sometimes I'm going to have to fight for them. 
Maria: And my rage toward, you know, a structurally racist institution, that's not going to look like transformative dancing in a field wearing a tunic and long flowing hair and, you know, a tame wolf beside me, you know, like that's not what it's going to look like. It's going to look like yelling. It's, it might look like, you know, putting your physical body on the line. 
Maria: It might look like bringing up facts and stories that people don't want to hear, but need to need to be confronted with love and light. We're, we're all working toward that. But, but I don't think, I don't think spiritual bypassing is love and light. I think love and light is taking care of each other and allowing ourselves to, allowing ourselves and other people to grow. 
Maria: use that light to illuminate a more spacious and expansive path for themselves in which they can have autonomy and freedom and be able to chase and create their own love and life and to share it with light and to share it. That's not always going to look like taking the nice way. Um, that's not always going to look like, Going through the system, but do know that like, even though, you know, people like me might seem angry at the world and like, you know, you know, help out on, you know, changing it and this and that this is all stemming from love. 
Maria: I just want to see my people. 
Maria: I'm to see mutual aid. I want to see people having empathy for people and like I want these things. I love being on this planet. I'm so grateful to have this chance to be a human. Would I do it again? I don't know, but here I am. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm so grateful to be here. I know what it's like to Because I know what it's like to have been happy and free and spacious. 
Maria: I want that for everyone else and toward the people who are making that damn near impossible for many people. I'm not going to be a nice lady, you know, like I'm going to be direct. I'm going to be straightforward. If you want to have a conversation with me. We can have a conversation as long as you are respectful. 
Maria: And, you know, we, I can talk to people with different, different perspectives, but. I don't think that telling people because they're witches that they need to take the gentle route and, you know, pray the way, etc. That's not going to help if you look throughout history, and if you look at just even just going to the Wikipedia page and just being like list of the empires, you will see that it's taken, you know, uprisings for a lot of them to have fallen. 
Maria: And. Those are not necessarily people showing up to the courthouse, you know, singing from their, you know, hymnals or something, you know, like that can look like so many different things. It takes so many roads. Liberation requires so many roads and so many perspectives and so many, um, bursts of effort that telling Everyone else to play it safe. 
Maria: Go by the rules. Be be the always take the quote unquote high road. And besides, who's defining what the high road is right. Um, but, you know, like, sometimes my love and light show up. As rage and the will to destroy what is preventing other people from experiencing that in their lives. 
Amy: Listeners, I'm just sitting here like getting a sore neck from deep nods and fist pumping in the air. 
Amy: Let's take a question from the coven. 
Heather: I am so happy to ask you a question. First, thank you for your Instagram. It inspires me to be a better person, um, a better witch and to like really sink my teeth into how authentically be challenged and grow and I need more in my life of that. And so you like the way for me. 
Heather: So thank you. Um, thank you. Thank you. I do have a real question too, , so you read me too and. Like what card has changed for you? You know, like we have these relationships with cards and some light up right away and we are attracted to them and then others kind of go to the side. And as you read more and more for me, at least I see I had my relationship changes to some cards. 
Heather: Is there any card or cards right now that speak to you in a different way or that really light you up? 
Maria: Yeah. Most recently, I think my relationship to the emperor has shifted. Um, the other week I had this lovely day where I got to talk with my mother and then I talked with my brother and did some other things that felt really grounding and foundational. 
Maria: And. The card I ended up pulling that day was the emperor, and it made me really rethink whose rules of, like, foundation am I Am I using because that talk of my mother connected me to like it grounded me to my foundation of love and familial support and that that's kind of a launch pad from which I go out and act into the world. 
Maria: I. I'll just tell you now, my, my big three are Leo Sun, Scorpio Moon, and Taurus Rising, so I have a lot of fixed energy, and so where I see a lot of other femme witches kind of turn away from the Emperor, I've always kind of leaned into the Emperor, because I like structure, I like structure. You know, expecting things, et cetera, et cetera. 
Maria: But those conversations I had and considering them in the context of what is foundational for me, made me realize that I've kind of been saying that my foundation is my to-do list, um, like that's the foundation for my day, and that's what, you know, pushes me to do anything in the world. And I just, like when I pulled the emperor, I was like, Oh, I haven't even written my to do list today, but I do feel like a sturdy foundation beneath my feet. 
Maria: I feel connected to the Earth's core. I feel connected to mortality and so on and so forth. And now I'm in a phase of re examining my relationship to the Emperor. I think, I'm not trying to plug my book again, but I think I give a really generous perspective of the emperor in my book, um, which clearly I need to reread. 
Maria: Um, but yeah, I, I think instead of the emperor being something to, to fear for its rigidity, you get to, it's an opportunity for you to remember that you are also The like builder here. You are a construction worker and you get to build that foundation however you want. And what makes you feel safe? What makes you feel secure? 
Maria: What makes you able? And one thing I wish more people talk about the emperor for about is. What makes you able to hold space for other people? Like those structures don't just exist to exist. They exist so we can coexist and live our lives in this shared world of ours. And how can I have a sturdy foundation enough where I feel safe enough to go out into the world? 
Maria: And create space for other people create. Maybe they're not like boxes is like the structure is just because the emperor is the four doesn't mean the structure has to be a rectangle or a square. You know, it can be very amorphous. But as long as you feel safe and you feel sturdy. I think you're more equipped to hold space for other people and, and honestly, more able to hold space for yourself. 
Maria: And in that space, you have a container where you can develop, um, where you can cultivate, um, further cultivate the gifts of the Empress, um, in, in a way that In a way that feels 
Maria: gosh, I don't know. I'm just going through so many thoughts right now. Um, but like thinking of the emperor as not just what makes my life feel like it's in order, but what makes my life feel so sturdy, safe, grounded, and capable of bringing people into my little structure and holding space for them. And like, how do I make sure that those walls are Those walls, those boundaries are, um, are strong, but also flexible and be able to be permeated when they need to be permeated. 
Maria: Um, I'm just, I'm just moving away from thinking of the emperor as a box and more like, uh, I don't know. I keep thinking of like a stretchy Play Doh circle cloud looking thing on the table. Like, that's, that's my structure. Um, yeah. So I love the emperor. I think that I think because that archetype has been so pushed into a masculine, um, perspective. 
Maria: Um, I don't think we think about the emperor as a potentially soft, you Um, archetype and I think absolutely the emperor can be a soft archetype. The emperor can be my family. You know, 
Heather: I cannot wait to read your book. 
Amy: Same, hard, same. I mean, Maria, you said, Oh, I'm not trying to plug my book again. I am. So, Tarot for the Hard Work, An Archetypal Journey to Confront Racism and Inspire Collective Healing by Maria Minnis. 
Amy: It's available for pre order right now, um, but it won't be in your mailbox until the new year, so order it now, and this, I do this all the time, where I pre order a book like months in advance, and then I get like a surprise gift that I bought for myself that I had forgotten about, so. Do it! Do it! By the time this comes out, the sort of, like, Yuletide gift extravaganza, and let's be anti capitalist about that too, and not go over the top and be ridiculous, but when the sheen of that has worn off, you may have one more gift coming if you pre order. 
Maria: Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. podcast. podcast when you added me on Instagram, I was like, 
Maria: and now I'm sitting here talking to you. So thank you for the space and thank you for the opportunity to reflect and to share some sort of digital connection with your listeners. Um, many of whom are some of whom I know, and we just. Gosh, about this podcast. Um, Yeah. It's very loved.
Amy: I think it's so fun that we all are sort of wowed by each other. 
Amy: And we all are like, Oh, you know, Maria's so much cooler than me. And you're like, Whoa, I can't believe Amy's following. You know, we all have this like, Excitement and reverence and irreverence that we, that we are all playing with together. Um, I want to end by saying you called yourself happy and free and spacious and that just fucking emanates from you and I want it for all of us. 
Amy: So thank you again so much for being here with me and for being, period. 
Maria: Thank you. And like. Wise. Thank you so much. I've, I, I, I cannot thank you enough. 
Amy: And blessed fucking be! Maria: Blessed be! 

Amy: If you want to support the Missing Witches Project, find out how at missingwitches. com